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Old 02-01-2012, 13:08   #166
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

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Originally Posted by Lancerbye View Post
Or to provide even more entertainment one could post an answer and have members try to come up with questions. A few more months to sailing season. lol
mebbe i woun't
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Old 02-01-2012, 13:10   #167
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

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Yeah, but then we would all say, "Oh, my dear! If that is the answer you are looking for then your question is all wrong!" Then we would spend 5 pages arguing about what the question should be.

Sounds like fun! We should try it.
wong wong wong
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Old 02-01-2012, 14:09   #168
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

Lets admit it. We got trolled.
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Old 02-01-2012, 14:27   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbank56

In a true balanced 2 phase system, the phase shift is 90°, not 180°. 2 phase distribution was used in the early 1900's in the US but I doubt you would find it anywhere today except for a historical display. You can create a true 2 phase supply from 3 phase with a special transformer and connection.

The scenarios are a fault from xformer primary to xformer case or secondary to shield.

The professional electricians that I know cringe when they hear 120/240 being called 2 phase or L1/L2 being refered to as different phases.

Eric
Yes, I looked it up after writing that and found the 90 degrees. Weird stuff.

The faults you describe... In the Victron that I have I see no possibility for such a fault to occur; it's physically impossible. But somebody can wire it incorrectly of course.

L1 & L2: That is the problem they are different phases in a 3-phase. They are also the same colors as in 3-phase:

L1 black
L2 red
L3 blue

Now in split phase we have L1 and L2 and they are black and red, but they are the same phase... that is why people say 2 phases so easy. They should have labeled these something like L1a & L1b and make both black.

cheers,
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Old 02-01-2012, 14:36   #170
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

You've gotten some good answers to your first question. As to your second, who knows what motivates others? In regards to number 3, should your pending suit for damages be tried in Rhode Island and should the defendant be found guilty of negligence, you would probably be considered guilty of contributory negligence as well. (note that the paper trail created here on this BB would prove your prior knowledge of the offending act - your failure to proactively attempt to protect your property would be a strike against you.) The judge would probably dismiss your case. I would add a zinc guppy ASAP and look into an isolation transformer. Move as soon as you can in the spring. Good luck.
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Old 02-01-2012, 14:44   #171
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Getting back to the original question. What is the legal recourse? I'm a lawyer (retired). As the plaintiff, you have the burden of proof. Proof of two things (a) the damage and (b) the cause of the damage. I'll skip the fancy latin words.... The court or jury would likely not find the plantiff's naked allegation sufficient. Thus, you would need expert testimony. The bottom line is that you could spend easily spend $20,000 or more and it could take a year or two to resolve. By that time, your vessel could be on the bottom. Also, you have an obligation to mitigate your damages. This means taking any reasonable measures to reduce or eliminate the problem including, without limitation, installing protective equipment or moving the vessel. I hope this helps. Save the litigation for the big ticket items. I know it's an annoying situation to have a jerk as a neighbor. Maybe his boat sinks from his own stupidity and justice will be served!

This is NOT legal advice in any jurisdiction. Just friendly conjecture. Cheers.
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Old 02-01-2012, 15:07   #172
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Leaving aside all the phase stuff ( boy the US has complicated its mains ) the fundamental issue is that the OP performed a series of test, which in effect have no validity and then on the basis of faulty tests has determined its his neighbours fault. Yet it could easily be his own boat at fault.

As to best practice. It's simple if you can afford it, buy and install a good quality isolation transformer. Then Remove the shore ground path as its not needed other then to the case of the Traffo. Then remove the DC negative and ac earth connection , then unbond the underwater fittings ( on grp boats ).

Dave
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Old 02-01-2012, 15:58   #173
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Then Remove the shore ground path as its not needed other then to the case of the Traffo.
For US installations, to be ABYC compliant the shore ground wire only goes to the xformer shield connection, not the xformer case. I may be wrong but I don't believe the Victron xformers are ABYC compliant regarding the shield ratings and internal connection?

Eric
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Old 02-01-2012, 16:00   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbank56

For US installations, to be ABYC compliant the shore ground wire only goes to the xformer shield connection, not the xformer case. I may be wrong but I don't believe the Victron xformers are ABYC compliant regarding the shield ratings and internal connection?

Eric
Yes case/shield whatever it makes little difference. It's a triumph of code over physics.

Victory safety is to EN 60076. ABYC is only a voluntary one. In Europe safety via the RCD is law hence to a far higher standard.

Dave
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Old 02-01-2012, 16:08   #175
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

If you want to keep the rig separate from the DC system, one DC negative connection that many people overlook is the VHF antenna mount.

The coax shield is connected to DC negative in the radio and it's also connected to the barrel connector on the mount.

I insulated the mount from the mast with nylon spacers, and it didn't affect the radio performance at all.

I did the same thing with the masthead mount for the Bullet M2HP transceiver.

Rig is electrically grounded with a Dynaplate and has no connection whatsoever to the DC or AC system.

As the boat was built in Denmark, it came with a GFI breaker and no AC grounding system, and I'm leaving it that way.
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Old 02-01-2012, 16:39   #176
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbe View Post
Getting back to the original question. What is the legal recourse? I'm a lawyer (retired). As the plaintiff, you have the burden of proof. Proof of two things (a) the damage and (b) the cause of the damage. I'll skip the fancy latin words.... The court or jury would likely not find the plantiff's naked allegation sufficient. Thus, you would need expert testimony. The bottom line is that you could spend easily spend $20,000 or more and it could take a year or two to resolve. By that time, your vessel could be on the bottom. Also, you have an obligation to mitigate your damages. This means taking any reasonable measures to reduce or eliminate the problem including, without limitation, installing protective equipment or moving the vessel. I hope this helps. Save the litigation for the big ticket items. I know it's an annoying situation to have a jerk as a neighbor. Maybe his boat sinks from his own stupidity and justice will be served!

This is NOT legal advice in any jurisdiction. Just friendly conjecture. Cheers.
talking about legal advice newbe has offered his free!!!! thanks for posting
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Old 02-01-2012, 16:45   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbe
Getting back to the original question. What is the legal recourse? I'm a lawyer (retired). As the plaintiff, you have the burden of proof. Proof of two things (a) the damage and (b) the cause of the damage. I'll skip the fancy latin words.... The court or jury would likely not find the plantiff's naked allegation sufficient. Thus, you would need expert testimony. The bottom line is that you could spend easily spend $20,000 or more and it could take a year or two to resolve. By that time, your vessel could be on the bottom. Also, you have an obligation to mitigate your damages. This means taking any reasonable measures to reduce or eliminate the problem including, without limitation, installing protective equipment or moving the vessel. I hope this helps. Save the litigation for the big ticket items. I know it's an annoying situation to have a jerk as a neighbor. Maybe his boat sinks from his own stupidity and justice will be served!

This is NOT legal advice in any jurisdiction. Just friendly conjecture. Cheers.
IANAL but I watched law and order "and" Miami Vice

- did you know about stay currents?
- yes
- would you say stray currents are a common occurrance?
- somewhat
- are there ways to shield against damage?
- yes
- were you advised to try them?
- yes
- Did you try them?
- No. But that guy is a meanie!
- (judge) Just answer the questions please
- do other people use these methods?
- yes
- (judge) dismissed. next case...
- but judge! There is no justice!
- I said next case...
- but judge! You are wrong!
- citation for contempt. Pay $200 do not pass go - Lunch!
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Old 02-01-2012, 16:56   #178
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

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talking about legal advice newbe has offered his free!!!! thanks for posting
I'm not lawyer, but know enough about civil law that if the OP does not take the retired lawyers words too heart, then the OP has more $$$ then common sense. Bet the OP is moping on some other board about the same issue, and not doing anything proactive about it.
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Old 02-01-2012, 17:42   #179
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

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Lets admit it. We got trolled.
Perhaps. But I learned alot about boat electronics from this thread, esp from Nick.
Thanks guys.
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Old 02-01-2012, 17:44   #180
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Re: Neighbor dumping raw AC into water?...what to do?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Yes case/shield whatever it makes little difference. It's a triumph of code over physics.

Victory safety is to EN 60076. ABYC is only a voluntary one. In Europe safety via the RCD is law hence to a far higher standard.

Dave
In the US, one's insurance may require ABYC compliance. If your xformer case is connected to boat ground as per ABYC, then I suggest not connecting your shore power ground there as well.

Eric
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