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Old 26-02-2017, 06:12   #1
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Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Hi there,

I have a B&G / Navico specific problem and hope that someone has experienced the same while installing his navico electronics.

I just bought a set of new B&G / Navico electronics for my boat: two B&G Triton T41 displays, the Triton Plot Controller, NAC3 course computer, RF25 rudder feedback, N2K sensors for speed / depth / wind. All correctly wired up, with backbone terminators, and both displays can see all sensors, as well as the NAC3 course computer.

According to the manuals the display's main menu should contain the menu items [Log / Alarms / Pages / Setup / Pilot].
In my displays the last menu item "Pilot" is simply missing. No clue why! Without this menu item I can't perform the commissioning procedure required.
So whats wrong?


Here is what I tried:
All N2K devices have their unique network address, and instance numer set to 0.
The NAC3 course computer can be seen in the T41 device list.
I can see the correct rudder angle on both the RF25 and the NAC3 data pages.
If I press the < or > buttons on the pilot controller the autopilot enters NFU mode and moves the rudder drive pump. I can't activate "Auto" mode, only NFU or Standby. I guess this makes sense, as the AP hasn't been commissioned so it should not steer the boat (NFU is just power assisted manual steering).

I can see the Autopilot page on the T41 and I can reset the NAC3 from the display, which is only available with the NAC3 connected. If I remove the Nac3 from the network this functionlity is not available.

My conclusion is that the N2K wiring between all these components seems to be OK, just as the wiring to the drive's hydraulic pump.

I tried to reset the N2K network, auto-search available N2K devices, reset the autopilot, reset the displays to factory defaults. No change.
I removed all non-essental components from the N2K backbone leaving only the course computer, RF25 and one T41 display (tried both of them). Makes no difference.



The T41 manual gives clear directions for commissioning but on my displays that menu item "Pilot" is simply missing...
Commissioning via a B&G chartplotter is not possible as I don't have one (the original 12" Navman chartplotter is still perfectly fine, and a new 12" B&G is too expensive for my taste).



Of course I contacted my dealer but no response so far so I thought maybe someone in the community knows a solution.
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Old 26-02-2017, 06:21   #2
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Am in the process of installing a very similar system but using Simrad AP controller instead of the B&G. Not sure how it works in Germany but in the US Navico has a toll free number that I have called a couple of times and very quickly was able to speak directly with a very knowledgeable tech support person. I would check to see if you can bypass the dealer and just call Navico direct.
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Old 26-02-2017, 06:47   #3
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

You might also want to download and install the latest software from their web site. One other thing to try is to remove all but one device from the network and see if you have access to the pilot.
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Old 26-02-2017, 08:27   #4
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Am in the process of installing a very similar system but using Simrad AP controller instead of the B&G. Not sure how it works in Germany but in the US Navico has a toll free number that I have called a couple of times and very quickly was able to speak directly with a very knowledgeable tech support person. I would check to see if you can bypass the dealer and just call Navico direct.
Yea, thats on my list for Monday. I just thought that the cumulative wisdom of CF members could be quicker than the hotline!

The Simrad system should be the same if you use the IS40 / IS42 displays and the OP10 / OP12 controller, but of course may be different if you use a dedicated AP controller with display like the AP44.
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Old 26-02-2017, 08:32   #5
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
You might also want to download and install the latest software from their web site. One other thing to try is to remove all but one device from the network and see if you have access to the pilot.
I already had everything removed but the course computer and the display, no luck.


Updating the software requires a B&G chartplotter which I don't have. Could also be possible with some Nmea2000 computer interface but I haven't looked closer into this option. The latest software updates on their website are already 2-3 years old, so I suppose they are already present in the current set of electronics.
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Old 27-02-2017, 05:06   #6
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Update:
I just got a call from the dealer. It turns out that the Triton 1 (T41) and/or the Triton 1 Pilot controller are not compatible with the NAC3 autopilot course computer! This course computer requires Triton 2 instruments!

I called Navico support and they were a bit speechless but confirmed the incompatibility. They have no plans for releasing a firmware update for the T41 to make them compatible with their newer autopilots. They will look into my case and I hope they will find a solution.

Bummer.



I wonder if I made the right choice based on their product support strategy. A product still being sold is already cosidered too old to keep it compatible.



While the Triton T41 were introduced some time ago they are still beeing marketed on the B&G website in parallel to the newer T42, at least here in germany. Nothing on their website indicates an incompatibility with recent course computers.

I had a very techincal discussion with one of their technical support guys at the Düsseldorf boat show before I placed my order there and that guy confirmed to me that I can use T41s with a NAC3. Maybe he forgot to mention "just not for commissioning".


So now I am getting after Navico for resolution. I will keep you posted.
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Old 27-02-2017, 05:40   #7
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Bummer is right. Please do let us know how this gets resolved. Commissioning is where I have run into problems. When I went through the steps it was not finding my rudder sensor to start the AP even though it did find it for the calibration steps. I read the manual (again), looked for trouble shooting pages, etc no joy.

Closest I found was a mention of a section in the menu for checking communication from anything attached to the NMEA backbone. Finding nothing better I went there and ran into a screen that allowed selection of one of three different rudder sensors. Once I picked the right one it got me past that step in the process. I rechecked and found no mention of that issue anywhere I could find in the manuals.

So far I think I will like the equipment (once I get it working) and tech support is readily available which I count as a major plus but the installation and setup isn't trivial.

By the way, I am using the AP44 controller/display. For my setup using a single unit instead of a separate display and controller was a better option.
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Old 27-02-2017, 06:53   #8
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

If you have a similar system as mine you have three rudder feedback devices:
The RF25 I have is directly attached to the N2k backbone. This is the one to use (for me).

My Nac3 course computer shows an additional N2K device called "NAC3 virtual rudder feedback" and another one "NAC3 rudder feedback".
The first device is some educated guess that the computer calculates based on pump activity and only useful if you install a system without a dedicated rudder feedback.
The second device is active if you have a rudder feedback sensor that is directly connected to the course computer (not via N2K but 2 separate cables).


For me the dual display with AP keypad was simply cheaper, as they have a reasonably priced package containing two displays, wind sensor and transducer so all I needed to add was the autopilot components.


I guess that Navico will resolve this OK, as Navico support had confirmed my "shopping list" by email before I placed the order with the dealer.
Basically they can either get me a firmware update for the Triton displays or replace the Tritons displays and the pilot controller with Triton 2 units.
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Old 27-02-2017, 08:35   #9
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

just got an update:
Navico (not the dealer) will replace my Triton 1 displays and pilot controller with new Triton 2 units for free.

They accepted responsibility for their mistake. While a nice move on their part, they should really get their websites updated to highlight this incompatibility.
Or even better povide firmware updates
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Old 27-02-2017, 09:28   #10
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
just got an update:
Navico (not the dealer) will replace my Triton 1 displays and pilot controller with new Triton 2 units for free.

They accepted responsibility for their mistake. While a nice move on their part, they should really get their websites updated to highlight this incompatibility.
Or even better povide firmware updates
Now that is customer service. Makes me glad I purchased a Navico product.
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Old 27-02-2017, 09:45   #11
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Now that is customer service. Makes me glad I purchased a Navico product.
They simply had to provide a solution. I have written evidence that the Navico technical service confirmed that my planned setup would work without any other components.

So they had to offer a solution, or I would have returned everything, and bought Raymarine.
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Old 27-02-2017, 11:26   #12
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

we have a guy in ontario canada thats a absulte wizard on B.g products he.s also the field tec 4 B.g if u want i will get his name and number 4 u. he solved all the problems we were having with a new b.g install last yr...
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Old 27-02-2017, 11:31   #13
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

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Originally Posted by rosatte View Post
we have a guy in ontario canada thats a absulte wizard on B.g products he.s also the field tec 4 B.g if u want i will get his name and number 4 u. he solved all the problems we were having with a new b.g install last yr...
thanks for the kind offer but that problem only Navico can solve by releasing new firmware. They confirmed that the Triton 1 and their new Autopilot are simply incompatible.

But as mentioned they already offered to replace the Triton 1 units with Triton 2 so I hope everything is solved.
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Old 28-02-2017, 12:28   #14
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Re: Navico Autopilot commissioning with B&G Triton T41 (~Simrad IS40)

today I received the Triton 2 units, and all is working well as far as i can see.
very quick delivery directly from Navico logistic center in Netherlands via UPS.


Anybody looking into Navico's new autopilots should make sure they have/order Triton 2 units, or the Simrad / Lowrance equivalents.

The new triton 2 look much cooler than the triton 1 (and have a USB port so can be updated in the field), but I'm still a bit worried that products still being sold no longer receive firmware updates.
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