N2K, Furuno, MaxSea

[s/v Jedi]

After some time off, I'm finally back on the job.

Furuno MFD12 is up and running, a collection of Maretron sensors hooked up, Simrad AP25 also on N2K network using a SimNet adapter cable.

Next was the Ethernet. We have a Mikrotik router aboard plus a Ubiquity radio to haul Internet aboard, plus a wifi access point for the computers, iPads etc. to connect to the net.

Our router does the DHCP so this would conflict with the Furuno MFD doing the same. I renumbered our network to the 172.31.x.x range which is used by Furuno and told the MFD to not be the "master" anymore. I got it's MAC address and entered a static IP for it in the DHCP server in the Mikrotik. It behaved well and pulls it's IP from my DHCP server.

After that I downloaded and installed the latest MaxSea TimeZero explorer (1.9.6) and let it's data wizard find and configure all instruments. It worked flawlessly.

Here comes the catch: we use Apple computers and I installed MaxSea under Windows 7 in bootcamp. Now, I want to run it under MacOS using Parallels and Windows 7 as the virtual machine. Well, everthing works except the data link over Ethernet (NavNet 3D). When I switch to the Maretron USB <> N2K converter, it works, but not natively over Ethernet. And stuff like radar image only comes over Ethernet....

After some browsing to find the cause, I think it is because under Parallels, Windows gets a virtual Ethernet port using a Parallels driver for that. MaxSea probably does some low-level network stuff to detect the Furuno display and the virtual driver does not support that. That's a shame because everything else works good. I'll try to dig a bit deeper later.

p.s. Installed the "splashtop" app on my iPad and take over the computer with MaxSea. Works 100%, so full navigation incl. AIS, radar etc. on the iPad, wireless !!!

p.p.s. The computer I used is a mid-2009 MacMini with nvidia integrated graphics (the weakest MacMini there is) and it's fast enough. There is a minute bit of lag noticeable in 3D chart mode so I guess that is why MaxSea tells you to have discrete graphics instead. There are advanced settings available to optimize performance if needed.

ciao
Nick.

[ElSashar]

Nick:Hi. I just upgraded my electronics on my Voyage CAT to Furuno VX2 with 12KW Radar and AIS. In reading your post it appears you have integrated Furuno net with your local LAN. I would love to do that. I have a separate laptop with MAXSEA 12.5 but are unable to bring in radar and AIS to Laptop. Can you advise on a direction to accomplish this? Thanks Warren S/V ElSashar wprice@priceautogroup.com

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by ElSashar

Nick:Hi. I just upgraded my electronics on my Voyage CAT to Furuno VX2 with 12KW Radar and AIS. In reading your post it appears you have integrated Furuno net with your local LAN. I would love to do that. I have a separate laptop with MAXSEA 12.5 but are unable to bring in radar and AIS to Laptop. Can you advise on a direction to accomplish this? Thanks Warren S/V ElSashar wprice@priceautogroup.com

Hi Warren,

Wow, I thought VX2 was discontinued as NavNet 3D is being sold for many years already. All I know is about 3D so I'm afraid that I can't help you. I don't even know if it's possible to get radar into MaxSea when using the old generation NavNet equipment. I guess it is possible, in which case the most basic setup would be well described in the documentation. My advice is to reconfigure to that simple setup, confirm that it works and then slowly expand it to your actual setup while continuously checking that it is still working etc.

ciao!
Nick.

[twistedtree]

Nick,

Any chance you've tried MaxSea under VMWare Fusion on the Mac? I've got the same basic setup on my boat, but haven't tried bringing the network out to the computer (it's still private to the NN3D gear). Doing so it on my list of projects for this winter and it's great to have someone paving the way. I've been using MaxSea under VMWare, but haven't tried connecting to the NN3D network yet.

Peter

[s/v Jedi]

Hi Peter,

I didn't try it with Fusion but have this feeling it might have the same problem. I need to find a dry day to put the new radar scanner up now... and see how that works on the network.

Take care with the Ethernet cables when using something else than that expensive Furuno hub. You must use 2-pairs instead of the standard 4-pairs when on different hub/switch.

ciao!
Nick.

[twistedtree]

At some point I'll give it a try and let you know.

I'm curious why you didn't leave the MFD12 as the DHCP server?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

At some point I'll give it a try and let you know.

I'm curious why you didn't leave the MFD12 as the DHCP server?

Great; I might switch when it works with VMware.

The Furuno can't be the DHCP server because it will be switched off most of the time that I need a DHCP server. I have more than a dozen IP devices aboard, incl. the music system's streaming audio to multiple zones etc. Rest is iPod, iPads, MacBooks, wifi, ...

I had no time today but hope to get more done tomorrow.

ciao!
Nick.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Here comes the catch: we use Apple computers and I installed MaxSea under Windows 7 in bootcamp. Now, I want to run it under MacOS using Parallels and Windows 7 as the virtual machine. Well, everthing works except the data link over Ethernet (NavNet 3D). When I switch to the Maretron USB <> N2K converter, it works, but not natively over Ethernet. And stuff like radar image only comes over Ethernet....

After some browsing to find the cause, I think it is because under Parallels, Windows gets a virtual Ethernet port using a Parallels driver for that. MaxSea probably does some low-level network stuff to detect the Furuno display and the virtual driver does not support that. That's a shame because everything else works good. I'll try to dig a bit deeper later.

Nick, the obvious needs to be asked. You are running the VM Network in 'Bridged Network' mode and NOT 'Shared Network' mode...?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Here comes the catch: we use Apple computers and I installed MaxSea under Windows 7 in bootcamp. Now, I want to run it under MacOS using Parallels and Windows 7 as the virtual machine. Well, everthing works except the data link over Ethernet (NavNet 3D). When I switch to the Maretron USB <> N2K converter, it works, but not natively over Ethernet. And stuff like radar image only comes over Ethernet....

After some browsing to find the cause, I think it is because under Parallels, Windows gets a virtual Ethernet port using a Parallels driver for that. MaxSea probably does some low-level network stuff to detect the Furuno display and the virtual driver does not support that. That's a shame because everything else works good. I'll try to dig a bit deeper later.

The plot thickens!!!

1) Parallels assigns a 'virtual' MAC address to it's Ethernet adapter.
2) Parallels uses the virtual MAC for the DHCP discovery. I checked the bindings on my DHCP server to verify.
3) But, ARP requests to the VM IP address are answered by the host MAC address, not the VM MAC address.

This implies that either the host Ethernet adapter is not capable of running 2 MAC addresses simultaneously, or Parallels choose not to implement it that way.

It may be a good question for Parallels.

It doesn't make sense to me why Maxsea would be communicating at layer 2 vs. layer 3. They obviously use layer 3 for some things, but not others. This certainly limits the communication capability of NavNet3D/Maxsea.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Nick, the obvious needs to be asked. You are running the VM Network in 'Bridged Network' mode and NOT 'Shared Network' mode...?

Oh my... You know more about it then I do I'll check those modes...

I think the layer 2 access might be for detecting components like radar scanner, AIS, fishfinder etc. I would use a broadcast packet myself but there is probably more to it that we don't see. Furuno also sends power on/off commands over Ethernet, using the two pairs that are not normally used.

Today I noticed that Navnet carries data from my Maretron sensors like barometric pressure, air temperature etc. while I do not get those when I use the Maretron USB100 converter. A quick look in the guide showed non standard NMEA-0183 messages. I also did not get AP to recognize an active goto while this works fine over Navnet. I need a 2nd USB100 for the N2Kanalyzer while the other is converting. Now it's tough to see what PGNs the converter is sending. A friend is ordering one so we'll have two for easy testing.

ciao!
Nick.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Oh my... You know more about it then I do I'll check those modes...

I think the layer 2 access might be for detecting components like radar scanner, AIS, fishfinder etc. I would use a broadcast packet myself but there is probably more to it that we don't see. Furuno also sends power on/off commands over Ethernet, using the two pairs that are not normally used.

Today I noticed that Navnet carries data from my Maretron sensors like barometric pressure, air temperature etc. while I do not get those when I use the Maretron USB100 converter. A quick look in the guide showed non standard NMEA-0183 messages. I also did not get AP to recognize an active goto while this works fine over Navnet. I need a 2nd USB100 for the N2Kanalyzer while the other is converting. Now it's tough to see what PGNs the converter is sending. A friend is ordering one so we'll have two for easy testing.

ciao!
Nick.

After further testing, I'm not sure you'll get Maxsea to see the radar using a VM. It hard to say why the layer 2 only thing, but as with most things, they evolve over time and this maybe something lingering around from an early design.

NavNet3D does a pretty good job at distributing N2K data over Ethernet amongst the MFDs.

I use the Actisense NGT-1 usb gateway to monitor the N2K network. They have a pretty nice set of view/capture tools. Looking at the Maretron data sheet, they don't claim support for AP messages (129283/4 to/from APB/RMB) across the USB-100. The Actisense NGW-1 does support these, but it's a 0183 - N2K gateway only (you need the NGT-1 to view the N2K).

Good Luck!

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Great; I might switch when it works with VMware.

The Furuno can't be the DHCP server because it will be switched off most of the time that I need a DHCP server. I have more than a dozen IP devices aboard, incl. the music system's streaming audio to multiple zones etc. Rest is iPod, iPads, MacBooks, wifi, ...

I had no time today but hope to get more done tomorrow.

ciao!
Nick.

I'm playing around with this now and not getting very far. I've got my Mac plugged into the Furuno hub along with my MFDs, DFF, etc.. One MDF is set up as the master which I believe makes it a DHCP server.

Yet my Mac is not picking up an IP address when connected. It eventually gives up and self-assigns an address which of course doesn't work.

I also tried giving my Mac a static IP of 173.31.3.50, taking guidance from the IP camera installation instructions. This makes the Mac happy, but I have no way of telling if any of the Furuno devices are accessible because I don't know their addresses.

Does anyone know what addresses get assigned to teh MFDs and other Furuno gear? I've tried randomly pinging around but haven't stumbled across anything yet.

Any insight is welcome.

Peter

[s/v Jedi]

Try to ping 172.31.100.254 My "master mfd" always took that address before I made it a slave

What you need is a router with DHCP server, or OS-X Lion Server or something DHCP that you have both control over and can see logs and/or assignments. From those you can find the MAC addresses for your displays, radar sensors etc. and thus see which IP's they get. I created static IP numbers for the Furuno gear based upon their MAC address.

But I now found that only a MFD that is master will get a SystemID for your Furuno installation. This SystemID is needed to unlock charts etc. so I may need to make it master again.
This is not a problem for me as my DHCP server is in a MikroTik router which is very advanced. I can tell it to expect another DHCP server to assign addresses but to act as backup when that doesn't happen etc. But you must have some background in IP networking before starting to play with these MikroTik routers. I have one with 5 Ethernet ports which can be configured as either a router port or a switch port, so it also replaces the Furuno Hub !

cheers,
Nick.

[twistedtree]

I'm off the boat now, so I can't do any more experiments until tomorrow, but.....

Shouldn't the Master MFD, acting as DHCP server, give my Mac an address? It seems to me that it should.

As a first step I just want to get MaxSea networked with the Furuno gear and see how all that works together. It sounds like you were very successful with that, but right now I'm hung up on the fundamentals of connectivity. I'm also trying to figure out if MaxSea running under VMWare on the Mac will work properly with NavNet. Once I have it all working and can see all the benefits, then I figure I'll put together a longer term solution.

Speaking of which, I'm thinking that I could put a router between the NavNet segment where the MFD master is the DHCP server, and a second segment with the MaxSea computer and other general network gear with the router acting as DHCP for that segment. Do you think that would work?

[s/v Jedi]

Yes, the master should give you an IP address.

No, NavNet will not work through a router. You must bridge or switch it.

The best way to tackle this is a packet sniffer. Last time I did that was with FreeBSD, I wouldn't even know if a Mac comes with one and am pretty sure Windows does not.

cheers,
Nick.