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Old 24-08-2018, 20:37   #31
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

If you're going to all that work and are trying for the best possible components, shouldn't those busbars be copper?
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Old 25-08-2018, 07:36   #32
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

My thoughts mirror Time2go. If you really have that many circuits, run a large pair of cables and have a local distribution (aka second fuse box) locally. Even 4/0 has to be smaller than a 30 conductor bundle....
I wish I had done this when rewiring...
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Old 25-08-2018, 10:42   #33
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Adequate protection on every load carrying circuit is essential.
Ever see what happens to a multiconductor conduit if a loaded circuit shorts out, and is not protected?
That is a multi conductor mess!!��
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Old 27-08-2018, 00:49   #34
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

There are actually 19 separate wires coming out of the pod, plus three dedicated cables to the three instruments, which I can’t mess with. There are also 14 wires from five engine gauges, amps, revs, oil, water & fuel, mounted lower down on the pedestal. Wires are mixtures of 16 & 14 AWG except the amp gauge which is 8 AWG, so I’ll leave that be.
I made and wired the pod myself, from a mishmash of original wires after I bought the boat. I bought the Raymarine multi function screen and re-wired the others. Everything has worked flawlessly for four years, which is remarkable considering the breaker panel wiring.
So here’s what I’m thinking of doing.
I will buy an 18’ foot long, 20 wires cable of 14 AWG. Strip off the outer casing then enclose the wires coming down the pedestal with plastic split wire loom casing, through the cockpit sole to the breaker panel and easily be able to also pull a couple out of the loom.
The wires are all different colors and being loose they will be less susceptible to overheating. I can also easily add wire for any new instrument into the split loom casing and the three dedicated wires will also rest inside the casing.
The engine wires don’t go to the panel, so I will buy a separate cable of 14 wires, also 14 AWG, which I will route with a separate split wire conduit to the engine, including the 10 AWG to the alternator.
I would still welcome any comment on this plan. Thanks JR
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Old 27-08-2018, 09:36   #35
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Looks like a mish-mash of home type wiring. In previous photo I see cab-tire (black extension cord cable) and romex 2c/#14 solid core (White house circuit) in this photo. Going to be problematic, if not now, in the very near future.
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Old 27-08-2018, 12:21   #36
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Adding to Bill's list, any wire that passes through the engine spaces should be rated for higher temperature and "petroleum resistant". Normal current capacity ratings don't apply and plain PVC insulation may degrade.

In order to properly size wire (and size is money and weight) you need to know what load it will all carry. Odds are many things on the pod really are using "ethernet" or "telco" grade wiring, small bundles that might be 18-24g not 14 or 16. But odds only count in Vegas, not in wiring a boat. It is very possible that whoever wired it up used "what's on the shelf?" simply because buying, say, three different sizes in each of 12 colors could mean 36 spools of 25-50' each, and that's MONEY.

I'm also curious: WTH did you find that will make up bundles of 30 x 14g (sae or awg, they're different gauges!) wire?

I know Painless Wiring Harness will make up almost anything, but they charge a suitable price for taking away the other pains.
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Old 27-08-2018, 15:12   #37
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Hellowsailor:
You are nearly right about using what was on the shelf—that would be me.
When I bought the boat it was a total wiring mess. Many wires had actually fused their insulations together and most were 16 AWG. So I bought a reel of 14 AWG and replaced all the bad circuits, which got everything working again. That was four or five years ago.
Since then I have fitted many pieces of electrical equipment, but always been careful to use the proper wire, as per the instructions for the device.
I am now planning to remodel the chart table area, see photo, which means moving the electrical distribution panel higher up near the turn of the deck. I could easily do this leaving the existing wires in place, but I want to tidy it all up and make it safer and neater.
The original wires traversed directly below the center cockpit, then through the engine bay to the panel. The route I will use, through the saloon, will be very much cooler.
I will replace all the original wire with 14 AWG. Even though I’m buying it in a cable, I can strip the outer case, so the wires will be loosely bunched and supported with cable ties.
I think it will be much more efficient than what I have at the moment.
The wire company is www.wireandcableyourway.com
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Old 27-08-2018, 15:38   #38
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Generally you would want to use tinned rather than bare copper wire for reasons of corrosion prevention as mentioned upthread. It is difficult to find multi-conductor tinned wire.


Ordinarily, large multi-conductor cables are not used for circuits carrying power because they do not dissipate heat well and the ampacity of the conductors is reduced.


Typically conductors do not all originate and terminate in the same place. Jacketed marine cable in 2, 3, and 4 conductor configurations allows you to route each cable as needed. The cables can then be bundled together using loom, old-school lacing tape, zip ties, or similar.


Number the cables at each end using number tape:


https://www.zoro.com/3m-wire-marker-...iABEgIQYPD_BwE


I agree with other posters that current best practice is to use NMEA networking for much of the sensing and control, which should dramatically reduce your wire count.
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Old 28-08-2018, 08:58   #39
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

I know tinned wire would be superior, but most projects on old boats are always a compromise between modern alternatives and cost—unless you’re filthy rich, which I’m not.
To convert to NMEA would be a small fortune, and wouldn’t interconnect everything anyway. I also like being able to see my engine gauges at a glance, without having to fiddle with the Raymarine display, which might not be on anyway.
The original wires, which have been in the boat nearly 40 years, were not tinned. I’m also routing the new wires in a shorter more direct path and they will all be separate and loose, and a thicker gauge. The few wires which are thicker than 14 AWG I will leave be. All the new wires will be different colors, but I will still number them as well.
Thanks for everyone’s input. It will take a few months, but I’ll send photos of the finished project. JR
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Old 31-08-2018, 07:07   #40
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Jolly Roger:
The cable you have specified does not appear to meet the requirements in ABYC Standard E-11. If you are going to go through all of the effort to straighten out this electrical mess, my suggestion is to build a compliant system.

As always, IYB.
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Old 31-08-2018, 07:16   #41
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Another consideration is that any wires going to instruments may not want common grounds or you could see readings change when you turn on your lights. It would depend on the gauge but it is worth considering.
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Old 31-08-2018, 07:27   #42
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

I must say Charlie, I hadn’t thought of that. What’s wrong with my proposed wire—not tinned, or what?

Also a good point Allene222. I don’t think I will actually use common grounds anyway.
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Old 31-08-2018, 07:42   #43
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

I looked at the wire link and it was not clear in my brief look if that is marine grade or not. When I rewired my boat I found that marine wire has more stands because boats move around more than houses so you need the added flexibility. It also has higher temperature specs so it can safely go through an engine compartment. I bought my wire from Marine Wiring, Boat Cable and Electrical Genuinedealz.com. Wonderful service and great prices.
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Old 31-08-2018, 09:10   #44
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

I am looking at some rewiring as well and I like your idea of running a multiconductor to keep it clean. The sample you describe from the link provided however is copper wire and not tinned to marine grade. I would not think of using this due to the high salt content in the marine environment, it will turn black and powder. Boat cable needs to be tinned wire which will last.
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Old 31-08-2018, 10:07   #45
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Re: Multi conductor wire for re-wiring job?

Genuinedeal.com only have twelve colours and the price would be $190.00 for 20 x 25’ wires. The price for 20’ of 20 multi-conductor cable will be $75.
If you follow this link down to the bottom of the page it is compliant for every which way, inside/outside, oil and water etc. But I guess it can’t be called marine wire because it’s not tinned.
https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/...0v-ul-csa.html
If you phone them they will send a 12” sample free.
I accept that tinned wire is longer lasting, but I expect this rewiring job to outlast me as well. I expect it will work perfectly well, but I’m going up to 14 AWG from the 16 and 18 which is fitted now.
Like I said before, buying stuff for boats is always a compromise between price and quality. But the old adage still stands today, like it always will, “mention marine and the price doubles”.
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