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Old 30-01-2016, 00:47   #31
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

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Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
I know this isn't hellosailor's main point, but 13.6V has been a fairly traditional automotive voltage spec. I've been seeing it for many decades. It does seem a bit high for a boat though.
I concur 13.6 V is a common voltage spec for mobile units and to its credit, the 802 performs very well at lower voltages, at least to the low 12 volts range.
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Old 30-01-2016, 09:40   #32
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Paul-
I may be behind the times, but 13.8, not 13.6, is what I've seen quoted as a minimum alternator voltage, with 14.3-14.4 being normal during any type of highway runs.


Icom has some history here, the IC706 series had 15 volt capacitors across the power leads internally. Capacitor makers normally rate those "15" volt electrolytics within +-10%, so they are suitable for use at not more than 90% of 15 volts, which is 13.5 volts--absolute maximum safe rating. Compared to the 14.4 volts most of those well-wired mobile installations were running at. They took a lot of flack over this.
Now, I'd also note Icom are Japanese and a lot of the Japanese cars have what Detroit would call "terribly sloppy" loose regulators. But really, in a car or in a boat, when have you looked at a voltmeter and seen under 14 volts while the engine/alternator/shorepower was charging the batteries? When have you seen 13.6 unless the battery was already at float?


So either Icom has given up on "proper wiring" and they are planning for a large voltage drop in the radio power leads, or there's something else going on. Planning for low power isn't bad, there are some radios that are literally infamous for putting out a lousy signal anywhere near "12" while others will work well down to nearly "10", making them superior if you're in distress with a dying battery.


Perhaps not coincidentally, Icom's spec of "13.6 +-15%" does mean the radio should operate normally at 11.5 volts, a "dead" battery, although the odds are the power output would be significantly reduced. Maybe that's their goal with the odd voltage choice?


But 13.6? Nuh-uh, not even on the new cars with "charge controllers" that fluctuate all over the place. (Which is not a pretty thing to watch and be baffled over, when you are driving the car.(G) Maybe I need to read more alternator repair guides, I haven't seen 13.6 called normal in any of them yet.
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Old 30-01-2016, 09:47   #33
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Paul-
I may be behind the times, but 13.8, not 13.6, is what I've seen quoted as a minimum alternator voltage, with 14.3-14.4 being normal during any type of highway runs.
All I can say is that I first saw the "13.6" spec back in the 1960's (I've been around for a while), and have seen it numerous times since then. I would guess that it's a "typical minimum nominal" voltage, or something like that.
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Old 30-01-2016, 09:54   #34
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Makes one wonder why Icon would play so close to the line. Hey - I inadvertently put 16V on my Ten Tec with no harm done! Not recommending that though ...

But, such close ratings on caps makes me think back to the days when we had to be sure our caps were good for 700 volts! When those went off - there was much more pop, crackle, or smoke!
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Old 30-01-2016, 10:02   #35
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Marine radios HAVE TO WORK at lower voltages....or they don't meet FCC "type certification". It's not a choice.

Many ham radios don't meet this specification. Some popular ones are terrible in this regard. The Icom 706 comes to mind: at voltages much lower than 12.4VDC it will not only FM but will cut out completely. This is one reason not to use ham radios in place of marine radios.

Most radios I've seen are spec'd at 13.8VDC or some at 13.6VDC. Many are + or - 10%; some are + or - 15%.

The Icom 802 is spec'd at: 13.6 V DC 15% (negative ground). This is a specified range of 11.56VDC to 15.64VDC.

The upper figure is particularly useful since charging voltages often reach 14.8-15.0VDC. The 802 easily handles this.

Bill
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Old 30-01-2016, 13:31   #36
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

hellosailor,
This is all WAY off the topic of this thread, which is supposed to be a reference for those looking for the information, not a long-winded discussion of the minutia..
So, I'll just make a few clarifications...



1) The good news is that the M-802 does not draw 3 amps on receive, but rather 2 amps (2.1amps at full volume, and bright display....and 2.0 amps squelched or dim display)

And, yes this is 48 A/H per day of consumption on our 12vdc battery supply....which is why most don't leave their M-802 running 24/7...

Even though the M-802 is not GMDSS certified (although the new 24vdc GM-800 is), it is marketed to those non-GMDSS required vessels who desire to use the GMDSS...

And, please understand that the "regulators" design the spec for best operation.....and manufacturers are making radios for the market that they can make the most $$$$ from (those who desire to use the GMDSS)


If you really wish to see some power hogs, take a look at the GMDSS cert gear!
Even the simple DSC Scanning receivers draw a great deal...(the Furuno DSC-60, scanning MF/HF-DSC Receiver draws 24 watts / 1 amp at 24vdc....and the old/discontinued DSC-6 drew 15 watts / > 1 amp at 12vdc...and these were just receivers!!!)

{and remember when the GMDSS was first designed (late 1980's), GPS had only been available to the commercial users (non US-military) for a few years, and the GPS receivers were as big as a couple shoe boxes, and cost > $5000.....so, there was little effort made at that time to even think that small, pleasure boats would out there sailing across oceans every day, and be needing to use every part of the GMDSS...
NOT saying the GMDSS is great for us....but, it's pretty damn good....and infinitively better than a handheld sat phone! }




2) As for the 13.6vdc spec....this is the spec on my 38 - 39 year old Drake TR-7....and a whole of other gear.
The 13.6vdc spec has been around a LONG time....I first saw it in the 1970's, but it's a lot older than that...

Regardless, whether it's 13.6 or 13.8, fact is that most ham gear, consumer "12vdc" gear, etc. are all designed to operate at 13.6 to 13.8 volts...

Type Certified Marine communications gear must meet its specs (within the certification) at any voltage within it's spec'd range (+/- 15%)....




3) As for the old radio watch procedures....
They were:
a) Two, 3-minute long periods on 2182khz Voice, at the top and bottom of each hour...
b) Two, 3-minute long periods on 500khz CW, at 15min and 45min after the hour...

Further, after those became fairly untenable, the "two-tone-alarm" radio watch receivers became ubiquitous....and from the 1970's thru the 1990's, the long-range "radio watch" was done by these dedicated watch receivers....

Are you really advocating sending hi-seas maritime signaling back 50 years?
'Cause that is not my idea of a good thing...




Not really sure how any of this has any relevance to us today, with the GMDSS and our M-802's....
But...


But, fair winds, anyway...

John
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Old 15-04-2016, 17:21   #37
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Hi All.
I have just replaced my 15 year old Icom718 with a new one after it developed a major fault.It is connected to a AH4 tuner.
My problem is that the new radio does not activate the tuner,only makes a bleeping sound on pressing.I have checked the plug & all seems fine.The tuner was working fine.Is there something in the settings on the radio? I have read the hand book but no help.
Any help much appreciated.
Davo
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Old 15-04-2016, 17:51   #38
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

when you set up your radio (IC-718) you have to tell it that you have a tuner.
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Old 15-04-2016, 18:22   #39
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Thanks I have just re read the hand book & now have it working.
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Old 27-04-2016, 15:50   #40
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Hi

I have an icom ic-m710 with an at-130 tuner. I can receive most anything, but have trouble transmitting. The mic clearly works, i can see that on the display of the ic-m710. I heard somewhere that it can be the tuner (at-130) that is faulty. Is this possible to repair? Can anyone direct me to the cause?
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Old 27-04-2016, 16:05   #41
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

WTF,,
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Old 27-04-2016, 16:22   #42
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus View Post
Hi

I have an icom ic-m710 with an at-130 tuner. I can receive most anything, but have trouble transmitting. The mic clearly works, i can see that on the display of the ic-m710. I heard somewhere that it can be the tuner (at-130) that is faulty. Is this possible to repair? Can anyone direct me to the cause?
There is a lot of dead air. I suggest you tune 5, 10 and 15 MHz, where you should find a continuous automated time broadcast. Conditions may not permit you to receive all three, but generally at least one of those frequencies should work.
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Old 27-04-2016, 17:51   #43
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus View Post
Hi

I have an icom ic-m710 with an at-130 tuner. I can receive most anything, but have trouble transmitting. The mic clearly works, i can see that on the display of the ic-m710. I heard somewhere that it can be the tuner (at-130) that is faulty. Is this possible to repair? Can anyone direct me to the cause?
how do you know that you aren't transmitting? if you are receiving then presumably your antenna is working. might be time for a radio tech.
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Old 28-04-2016, 00:01   #44
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Yeh i guess so. I downloaded a service manual. Hoped to understand how to measure if it is sending. I think IT is tuning all the time and are sending with limited power or something.
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Old 16-05-2016, 05:02   #45
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Amadeus,
If you go back to the first page and read all through the original posting here, you'll find a wealth of resources that will help you out.

And, as you'll see there are few Voice SSB Coast Stations still operating, as since the implementation of the GMDSS in the 1990's, all "MF/HF radio watchstanding" (by all SOLAS-grade vessels AND coast stations) must be done by DSC....
{there are a couple dozen MF-DSC coast stations, in a dozen different countries, in the North Sea area alone...and > 450 worldwide...as well as > 80 HF-DSC coast stations worldwide....but few coast stations maintain a Voice SSB radio watch anymore, and haven't for a couple decades}

{While the USCG, Australian AMSA, and NZ Maritime Authority, still maintain a Voice SSB Radio watch...as well as WLO and KLB (public coast stations in the US), nobody else in the world does....so, being able to "talk" to someone and/or "call" someone on the MF/HF Marine Radio ("SSB"), without having a MF/HF-DSC-SSB Radio, is very limited!!
You can try tuning into one of the many "cruising nets", and calling at their prescribed net time, BUT...
But, most of these "cruising nets" are fairly local/regional in nature, in that they use frequencies/times that are good for communications out to a few hundred miles, and I'm not aware of any in/near Norway or the North Sea...
(there used to be a long-range, trans-Atlantic weather net on HF, 12.359mhz, but no longer...) }

So, aside from some regional cruising nets (none in your area that I'm aware of), your options for trying to "call" someone on your M-710 / testing your radio on-the-air, are limited to:
a) Using it on the ham radio bands (assuming you have a ham radio license), where you'll find hundreds of folks happily helping you out in testing....BUT...
But, while the M-710 can transmit/receive on the ham frequencies, it is not designed to do so and is cumbersome to program the transmit/receive frequencies in and use...do-able, yes...but a pain...

I would suggest trying 14.300.0...the ham radio Maritime Mobile Service Net, during your afternoon and early evening...
http://www.mmsn.org/

But, there are a plethora of ham radio nets, as well as 1000's of hams just randomly talking on-the-air daily, that you could talk to....(but, again the M-710 isn't the best choice for this!)


b) Making a long-range call, at appropriate time and frequency, to WLO Radio (a public coast station in the US)...
(choosing the proper channel/frequency for the time of day is critical here...try 1641 in afternoon...and 1212 in the evening/at night...and maybe 824 late at night/up to an hour after sunrise)
http://www.shipcom.com/frequencies.html


c) Arranging for someone else to be at their radio (on their boat) at a specified time and frequency, to attempt your call and check your radio...
(choosing the proper channel/frequency for the distance and time of day is critical here!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus View Post
Hi
I have an icom ic-m710 with an at-130 tuner. I can receive most anything, but have trouble transmitting. The mic clearly works, i can see that on the display of the ic-m710. I heard somewhere that it can be the tuner (at-130) that is faulty. Is this possible to repair? Can anyone direct me to the cause?
There are any number of ways to test / proof of performance your HF radio install....but...
But, before you go any further, I'd suggest that you watch the videos here...(sorry they're in English as I don't know Norwegian!)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnN6ygtZ3h2nPNdApNsZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y


And, then after you've watch all of them, come back here and start a new thread telling us:
a) what knowledge/experience you have with HF radio
b) do you have a ham radio license / do you want to attain one
c) when your M-710 was installed
d) have you ever actually seen it work / have you yourself used it
e) what your primary use of it will be / who you wish to talk to

And, we can surely help you more!


Fair winds..

John


P.S.
Here are some more helpful videos...
https://www.youtube.com/user/captainjohn49/playlists
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