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Old 10-09-2015, 21:06   #16
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

John,
Not sure how to Private Message, but I'd like to speak with you. Where are your currently located?
Please advise
Nick


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Old 11-09-2015, 05:26   #17
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Nick,
I'm in Florida.

I sent you a PM, so please let me know how I can be of assistance.


Fair winds....


John
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Old 08-10-2015, 15:02   #18
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

thanks to KA4WJA for linking me to this thread

now I've got to get my Extra License going - I guess there is no CW dictation anymore.

N6VFJ (expired but I didn't know until too late)
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:35   #19
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Thanks for providing a wealth of information. Really helps a guy like me who doesn't know what he doesn't know.

One thing you may have missed (or perhaps I missed it in your summary), is a recommendation on how to prepare for a ham license. I used HamTestOnline and was easily able to pass all three exams to get an Extra license in one sitting.
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Old 13-11-2015, 06:48   #20
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

--- You are all very welcome!



--- Since this is a sailing forum, and most here are better served by using the maritime mobile radio service, I decided to not clutter the minds of most sailors here with too much info about the amateur radio service (ham radio)...

FYI, by US law and International law / agreement, the amateur radio service (ham radio) and the maritime mobile radio service (what many here call "Marine SSB"), have very specific purposes / uses for their existence....

Here are the basic purpose of the amateur radio service:
Quote:

Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part
are designed to provide an amateur
radio service having a fundamental
purpose as expressed in the following
principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of
the value of the amateur service to the
public as a voluntary noncommercial
communication service, particularly
with respect to providing emergency
communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the
amateurís proven ability to contribute
to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement
of the amateur service through rules
which provide for advancing skills in
both the communication and technical
phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir
within the amateur radio service
of trained operators, technicians, and
electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the
amateurís unique ability to enhance
international goodwill.
Contrast the above, with the basic purpose of the Maritime Mobile Radio Service:
Quote:
The Maritime Mobile Service is an internationally-allocated radio service providing for safety of life and property at sea and on inland waterways. It includes the Maritime Mobile Service, the Maritime Mobile-Satellite Service, the Port Operations Service, the Ship Movement Service, the Maritime Fixed Service, and the Maritime Radiodetermination Service. These services classify the different types of marine radio communications. Together, shipboard and land stations in the marine services are meant to serve the needs of the entire maritime community.
--- As for ham radio / learning / licensing...
The best approach is to first determine whether ham radio is for you (remember it is a radio service, not just a "hobby"), and then read some books and study the radio theory, radiowave propagation, and the rules 'n regs...once you know them backwards and forwards, then you're ready to take a test or two, or three!!! (also remember that the ham radio license is just the very beginning of learning....not the end!!!!)
Ham operators that are not well versed in these areas, but rather have used "study guides" or "q and a" drills, etc., are better served by using a marine HF radio / "Marine SSB" radio (such as an Icom M-802 or the older M-700Pro) on the ham radio bands, as these will provide excellent results on the ham radio bands (as well as on the maritime bands), without having to worry about causing interference to others on-the-air (whether other hams or aviation, maritime, fixed services, etc.) by improperly adjusting their transmitter...

I do hope this helps...
Fair winds..
John

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Old 14-12-2015, 11:22   #21
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Hi John and all,

I was just about to buy a used Icom 802 SSB from another forum user but just backed out. My nervousness came from not knowing if I could program in my own MMSI to it. I had an 802 before, and I just reconfirmed by looking at the latest 802 manual on the Icom website, that you can only reprogram the unit once in the field. Is that only once/twice by using the radio itself or can you have a certified tech reprogram it? Or is it forever, i.e. you can no longer change the MMSI?

Also, is there any way to identify which model an 802 is by its serial number? I have learned that there are at least two significant model changes since 2007. My old unit that I sold with the previous boat was from 2003 or 2004 and I have not kept up since then. Thanks.
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Old 14-12-2015, 11:45   #22
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Anyone with the appropriate software and cables can re-program the MMSI # in an M-802.

You're right: you need to be careful of the serial numbers. Those beginning with a "1" are the latest version and require the latest cloning software.

Those beginning with a "0" are older. Early production M-802's (those with ser # below 0108261) had the clipping problem. This problem has been fixed in some older sets (by Icom, free-of-charge); some have not. It's possible to tell by a physical inspection of the circuit board.

What is the serial number of the one you passed up?

Bill
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Old 14-12-2015, 11:49   #23
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

The serial number is 02517. Thanks for the info. Joe
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Old 14-12-2015, 12:03   #24
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
The serial number is 02517. Thanks for the info. Joe
Joe,

Are you sure about the s/n? All the M-802s I've come across have 7-digit serial numbers.

Bill
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Old 14-12-2015, 20:17   #25
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Joe,
Bill has gotten you well taken care of!
(yes, check that s/n again..)

Just wanted you to know that I wasn't ignoring 'ya!

fair winds...

John
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Old 15-12-2015, 08:50   #26
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Thanks Bill and Johh,
I'll see if I can get the whole thing. Thanks for your help.
Joe
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Old 16-12-2015, 16:04   #27
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Joe,

Are you sure about the s/n? All the M-802s I've come across have 7-digit serial numbers.

Bill
Bill
Attached is a picture of the plate on the 802 from the owner. It is just the number I gave you. He also says it has an MMSI programmed in but doesn't know if it is the first time or not.
Thanks
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Old 29-01-2016, 17:48   #28
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Okay, I haven't added / updated this thread in a while...and I get a LOT of e-mails and PM's asking details on two big topics:
a) How-to properly install a Marine SSB?
b) How-to properly use a Marine SSB?

And, ironically these are the primary intention / focus of this thread, and the videos...but, somehow few seem to read this in detail, nor watch the video playlists (videos in order)....

So, I will endeavor to continue to refer people here, but thought I should add some more details about "how-to use / operate" the radios...
So, here goes...



I will simply paste in here some things I've sent to some that have e-mailed / PM'ed me....with some generic comments added...
Hope it helps you all out!

FYI, the two most frustrating things for me (and I suspect many here) are:
a) those that ask questions without providing any / much info....especially never saying where they are at / where they are planning on sailing/cruising....and not relating what their "tech" level is....
b) those that ask questions, get the answers, and never respond / show back up to update us if all worked out okay...

So, rule #1 here is to please give as much info / as many details as you can....
And, rule #2 is please come back and let us know how everything worked out...



Now, onto the nitty-gritty...
Here's a recent message I sent to someone asking how to use/operate his professionally-installed M-802 and PACTOR modem:::::

~~~~~~~

Quote:
I do NOT know where you are located, where your boat is located, where you are planning on sailing/cruising, etc....nor whether you have good internet access at your current location, nor at your vessel's location...


Nor do I know what experience / knowledge you have in any "tech"??
Nor, do I know how computer literate you are, nor whether you may be a total non-tech guy (like my late father) or a closet tech nerd (like one of my brothers), or anywhere in between...

What I'm getting at is:
In can only provide you with "general" info, as I don't know anything specific other than you have an M-802 and PACTOR modem...
So, with that in mind, here goes...



Right up front, you ask some loaded questions (which is GOOD!)....mainly because you write "professional installed" and then ask about learning how-to use the equipment...as well as asking about licensing...


Please do not take offense here, as I will be blunt and direct, 100%....and this tends to put people off....so fair warning!!



The "problem" is that a significant part (and VERY IMPORTANT PART) of a "professional installation" IS operator training / instruction, and a minor part (albeit an important one) is licensing of both the vessel and the operator / captain!!
Any "professional installation" that did not do either/both of these things is suspect, and most probably not done by a true professional, no matter how much you paid, nor who recommended them....


Before I offend you anymore, please note that it is possible that your "professional installer" did already apply for license for you (as this is the only legal way for him to have actually installed the radio for you, in the US, UK, EU, etc.).....and possibly he offered to provide instruction but was unable to do so because of logistics/geographical issues???
So, it is possible that your pro is a good guy, and your install is done correctly....but, using just what you provided me, I'm still very suspect...

Quote:

Quote:
Last fall we had an Icom 802M, AT140, pactor III modem professionally installed. Can you recommend a course or method of learning how to use this equipment? We will be back aboard our boat in a couple months. What licensing, if any, is required.

Many thnx


How about some good news??




1) If you are a US flagged pleasure boat, the licensing is easy, and cheap....(it will take you a few minutes on-line, filling out forms, and cost about $260, and about $215 renewal every 10 years...)


If you are a UK / EU flagged boat, the costs are higher, as you will need to take some classes/courses, etc...
(same for Australia, NZ, etc..)
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure about other countries..


Once you tell me what country the vessel is flagged under, and where the boat is, I can be more specific and point you to the specific web page...




2) As for "learning how-to use the stuff effectively"....some more good news!!


The most important things to learn are:
A) Radiowave Propagation (choosing the correct channel/frequency, for the time-of-day and distance to cover, etc.)
B) HF radio noises, what is natural/atmospheric and what is man-made (RFI)
C) How to talk on the radio...

Once you learn these 3 things, everything else is child's play!!!




Please have a look at the "sticky", right at the top of the Marine Electronics page here...
Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, etc.)


In addition to more references / links than you could ever imagine there....here are some Youtube videos that will explain everything in laypersons terms, and take you step-by-step thru the whole "learning process"....all for FREE!


Icom M-802 Instruction Videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rC-8QKVyMb4tVr


HF-DSC Comms
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ga2zYuPozhUXZX


Offshore Weather info/forecast sources
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...zdjTJjHlChruyY


Please watch the videos in the playlists, in order!
If you do this, you will learn everything in a logical way, and shouldn't be confused...




a) FIRST, you must learn how-to use the radio, as a radio....meaning learning both the buttons/knobs (what and how they do what they do), AND how-to use the radio as a VOICE radio (that means listening to others talking and talking to them)


You MUST learn this first, as this will allow you to understand how-to use / do all the other functions...


For the M-802 specifically, there are the videos above....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rC-8QKVyMb4tVr


The biggest mistake I see cruisers make is to think they can just plug-in their laptop to their PACTOR modem, and it will do everything they need!!
This stuff does NOT work this way, no matter what the guy selling it to you says....trust me, if you don't know how-to properly use the radio, you will be frustrated with they system overall!!


b) Secondly, is the use of DSC....this is easy-peasy....especially once you understand the Voice operations, this is as simple as pressing a couple buttons, and the radio does the rest, automatically!!



c) Third, is the e-mail connectivity via your PACTOR modem....
Follow the Sailmail procedures to the letter (including the installation and programming instructions, of both the radio/modem, and the Airmail software), and you will have success!


SailMail Primer



3) Finally, if you are somewhat "techy" or a social sort of guy, then learning about "ham radio" may also be of interest (and of help)....


Check out the American Radio Relay League www.arrl.org





There is a lot more to all of this, but until I know some specifics, that's about all the generalities I can give you off the top of my head!


I do hope this helps..


fair winds..


John




P.S. Some other videos that might be helpful / enjoyable:


Offshore Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...KgTCj15iyl6qoY


Maritime HF Comms, in general
(with many duplicate videos, from the above playlists....for those who do NOT have an M-802, nor any DSC radios...)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZDo_Jk3NB_Bt1y
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I do hope this helps you all out..

Fair winds...

John
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Old 29-01-2016, 19:57   #29
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

John-
There's a bigger issue here that regulators and manufacturers might consider addressing. The IC802 is supposed to draw 3.0 amps at a (most peculiar) 13.6 volts DC. I say most peculiar because I've never heard of that being an expected target voltage for mobile use.
But 3 amps for 24 hours, and the radio is eating 72AH per day, every day, and that flatly makes it impossible for use on a boat. On a ship with gensets running, fine, but not on a recreational sailboat.
Now, on the other hand, if anyone would remember traditional radio watch procedures...With today's technology you could build a radio that consumed literally microamps all day, and the turned on the main receiver for five minutes on either side of the hour. Or five minutes after each half hour. Or whatever kind of schedule the ITU could agree on. Every tenth minute? Two minutes every quarter? Whatever!


Ten minutes an hour instead of all 60? OK, now that cuts 72AH to 12AH per day, which is within the realm of "inconvenient but quite feasible" for sailboats.


I think the ITU simply forgot that there are a lot of "not a commercial ship!" vessels out there, and reverting to a radio watch schedule, automated by a flea-power controller circuit in the radio and matched with a "quiet time" watch period to help even more, would be a tremendous step toward making HF DSC, of any type of full-time HF safety watch, possible.
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Old 30-01-2016, 00:04   #30
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Re: Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, e

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
The IC802 is supposed to draw 3.0 amps at a (most peculiar) 13.6 volts DC. I say most peculiar because I've never heard of that being an expected target voltage for mobile use
I know this isn't hellosailor's main point, but 13.6V has been a fairly traditional automotive voltage spec. I've been seeing it for many decades. It does seem a bit high for a boat though.
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