Maretron vs. Airmar Ultrasonic Wind

[hellosailor]

Well, look at the bright side. Unlike Ford or GM or some other large companies, at least Maretron's aren't catching fire and exploding.

Damned good stuff, if it just quietly stops working, in a reliable manner. (VBG)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Actually, I did mean it in that context. The most recent failure which was a brand new unit in operation for only about a month, failed during a wind driven rain storm. Obviously I can't say for certain, but that fits the symptoms of all the other water intrusion failures. The other recent failure under those same circumstances was also within the last couple of months on a unit that was about a year old, and the second replacement. So all the evidence I see says the problem is still alive and well.



My own WSO failures have all been the humidity sensor which is the other thing you mentioned. I'm on my scond unit which failed within a month of installation. But interestingly, now maybe 5 months later, the humidity just came back.

Even if the airmar humidity is prone tomfailure, it is a simple $100 swap of the humidity module which is a much easier and less expensive fix.



BTW! i am generally big fan and supporter of Maretron and their products, and have one of the larger networks out there apparently. But they do have their lemons, and the WSO is one of them. I also had quite a bit of trouble with their GPS and after the second return to factory for repair, replaced it with a Furuno GP330 which has been trouble free. But their products are 90% all good, and I think they are one of the best vendors in the industry.

The original problem was that the unit completely filled up with water. Very easy to determine: it weighs 10x as much and the point of ingress shows by a slow drip. It was the weld of the two halves of the housing.

The problem with the humidity sensor... I think it would be best not to have this sensor and suspect that there would be no failure when the sensor is taped or otherwise shielded from the elements.

I agree that the modular setup of the humidity sensor in the Airmar unit is better. You can also not install it and prevent all trouble with it. The past season I tested my WSO100 inside the cabin and there was no trouble at all. I plan to tape it next season when it moves outside again.

I have had the Maretron GPS for the past 6 years with zero problems. I have not heard of design problems with it before. I have a Furuno GP33 that I am not impressed with for things like update frequency etc. but with it's display unit it provides the redundancy from plotters etc. that I wanted and the AP seems happy with it. I think the 330 has all the features of the Maretron and Airmar sensors?

[barnakiel]

Now that the failure mode is known, perhaps there is a way to weatherproof any future units prior to fitting them at the top of the mast.

Too bad the company did not.

b.

[DeepFrz]

I see that SV Delos has had problems with their Maretron unit that isn't very old.

[ChrisseH]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The sensor does not have to be centered except that the apparent readout will be where you place it. It must only be aligned as you need some sense of apparent vs. WHAT? Exactly, the alignment line. But it can be off center. You may notice some difference due to wash-up to be asymmetric then.

For app wind vs. true readout this is best done outside the box by comparing with some source of magnetic alignment and then correcting for the magnetic vs. true difference. It would take a high quality, well positioned and calibrated sensor (also if magnetometer type) to reduce the errors to near nil. Doable, but possibly only worth it in some critical applications, not in the boat. Imho you may spend your energy better correcting the sensor for acceleration (all new sensors do this though).

With plain Ray sensors one can easily get true wind to within 3 maybe 2 degrees. This should be good enough for 99% of users, I think.

I too like to read true as sailing the oceans this helps me spot regular daily variations. Then I gybe the boat accordingly, arriving at our destinations a whooping 6 hours earlier than without! ;-)

ymmv

Anyone using the French sensors? (LCJ) Do they live longer than the WSO?

Cheers,
b.

For almost five years I have now been using the CV7-C manufactured by LCJ Capteurs. This is the model with a vertical carbon pole and 4 Hz measurement frequency. The sensor measures also air temperature.

I have been very pleased with the CV7-C. In a single sensor setup, it is always difficult to estimate accuracy, but the sensor behavior is very consistent and I have so far had no reliability issues.

My CV7-C is connected to a PC based measurement and logging system (SeaMODE Speed Lab) together with a 10 Hz GPS, 6D motion sensing and a speed log sensor that is both calibrated and compensated for heeling. True wind is calculated taking into consideration most of the distorting effects including heeling dependence as well as for the variation of flow caused by roll and pitch motions. I have plenty of measurement data available but, as said, not against any reference wind sensor. So, when I talk about consistency I can obviously only study the sensor's noise behavior, repeatability (for instance by looking at subsequent readings from several tacks) and its consistency over time.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Well, for any of these devices you need a way to get the N2K data. So some form of N2K to PC interface is required. For CE there is Nemo, their older NT50, a Maretron USB100, and I'm pretty sure the Actisense device.

By the way, if you use CE, Nemo is awesome. I've been Alpha/Bata testing for around 18 months and really like it.

Sure.

But it would be twice as awesome if any nav software (PC based, App or otherwise) could read N2K directly.

First, a group of vested businessmen invented a better (?) method of sending boat data. Then they delivered equipment that uses this data. Now there is not a single N2K capable app around? C'mon. Something is upside down.

The standard should either be made open or else abandoned. Or else we will keep on buying black boxes, interfaces and other such unnecessary things.

barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by ChrisseH

For almost five years I have now been using the CV7-C manufactured by LCJ Capteurs. This is the model with a vertical carbon pole and 4 Hz measurement frequency. The sensor measures also air temperature.

I have been very pleased with the CV7-C. In a single sensor setup, it is always difficult to estimate accuracy, but the sensor behavior is very consistent and I have so far had no reliability issues.

My CV7-C is connected to a PC based measurement and logging system (SeaMODE Speed Lab) together with a 10 Hz GPS, 6D motion sensing and a speed log sensor that is both calibrated and compensated for heeling. True wind is calculated taking into consideration most of the distorting effects including heeling dependence as well as for the variation of flow caused by roll and pitch motions. I have plenty of measurement data available but, as said, not against any reference wind sensor. So, when I talk about consistency I can obviously only study the sensor's noise behavior, repeatability (for instance by looking at subsequent readings from several tacks) and its consistency over time.

Thanks!

Exactly, LCJ.

Apparently, LCJ Capteurs sensors are not as popular in the anglo saxon sailing world as they deserve. Even thought very many Mini Transat and a few IMOCAs use them. And these DO PUT THEIR MASTS IN THE WATER now and then.

So the water proofing of their CV7 and other their models must be quite good, I think.

Thank you for first hand input. This fall I will have a new wind sensor on our boat going to the West Indies and LCJ is on my short list.

Best regards,
barnakiel

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Sure.

But it would be twice as awesome if any nav software (PC based, App or otherwise) could read N2K directly.

First, a group of vested businessmen invented a better (?) method of sending boat data. Then they delivered equipment that uses this data. Now there is not a single N2K capable app around? C'mon. Something is upside down.

The standard should either be made open or else abandoned. Or else we will keep on buying black boxes, interfaces and other such unnecessary things.

barnakiel

NMEA is about the most obtuse organization there is. The number 1 priority during the development of N2K was to keep it locked up.

And they wonder why IMO never adopted N2K.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Sure.

But it would be twice as awesome if any nav software (PC based, App or otherwise) could read N2K directly.

First, a group of vested businessmen invented a better (?) method of sending boat data. Then they delivered equipment that uses this data. Now there is not a single N2K capable app around? C'mon. Something is upside down.

The standard should either be made open or else abandoned. Or else we will keep on buying black boxes, interfaces and other such unnecessary things.

barnakiel

But isn't CoastalExplorer exactly what you are asking for, namely software that can read and write N2K directly? You obviously need a hardware interface to Canbus, but that's hardware, not software. And several interfaces are available and supported.

As for open vs abandoned, I agree. I think it's the only proprietary "standard" that I'm aware of.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

But isn't CoastalExplorer exactly what you are asking for, namely software that can read and write N2K directly? You obviously need a hardware interface to Canbus, but that's hardware, not software. And several interfaces are available and supported.

As for open vs abandoned, I agree. I think it's the only proprietary "standard" that I'm aware of.

Look at this screen dump. It seems to say N2K via a gateway bridge, NOT NATIVELY / DIRECTLY. (?)

Correct me where I am wrong.

Cheers,
b.

[tanglewood]

Those gateways all deliver native N2K PGNs to the applications. I know with 100% certainty that CE speaks native N2K, and has done so for at least 5 years as I have been using it that way since then. Inside CE you can see the incoming PGNs, and there are a variety of options to control sent PGNs, for example for Autopilot control.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Those gateways all deliver native N2K PGNs to the applications. I know with 100% certainty that CE speaks native N2K, and has done so for at least 5 years as I have been using it that way since then. Inside CE you can see the incoming PGNs, and there are a variety of options to control sent PGNs, for example for Autopilot control.

Doh.

Then they clearly have not updated their website. Drop them a message this will help them. It is a selling point.

Cheers,
b.

[lateral]

Not exactly to topic but....
I am on my second PB200 which exhibits erroneous readings in rain. (90+knts & 180° out) Fine when its fine
I am seriously considering going back to mechanical.
First one was out of warranty.
The second one was new old stock so should still be under warranty but am fast losing interest.
Has any one else had rain accuracy problems with the airmar?
Don't recall the first one having rain problems or only when horrendous but ultimately it intermittently dropped out and was obviously an internal fault.
BTW...everything set to 0 hz except wind.

[dpddj]

Originally Posted by ChrisseH

For almost five years I have now been using the CV7-C manufactured by LCJ Capteurs. This is the model with a vertical carbon pole and 4 Hz measurement frequency. The sensor measures also air temperature.

I have been very pleased with the CV7-C. In a single sensor setup, it is always difficult to estimate accuracy, but the sensor behavior is very consistent and I have so far had no reliability issues.

My CV7-C is connected to a PC based measurement and logging system (SeaMODE Speed Lab) together with a 10 Hz GPS, 6D motion sensing and a speed log sensor that is both calibrated and compensated for heeling. True wind is calculated taking into consideration most of the distorting effects including heeling dependence as well as for the variation of flow caused by roll and pitch motions. I have plenty of measurement data available but, as said, not against any reference wind sensor. So, when I talk about consistency I can obviously only study the sensor's noise behavior, repeatability (for instance by looking at subsequent readings from several tacks) and its consistency over time.

Great info - hoping you might be able to help me. I have been looking at the LCJ-CV7SF. I would like to go with the wireless for atop the masthead. Tired of the ospreys and their perching habits.

I still have the Raymarine ST60+ wind display (old NEMA 0183), in working condition. My chartplotter is a Raymarine e95 so I also have NEMA 2000 available.
Would you know if I'd be able to LJC masthead unit to work with the old ST60+ wind display? Or... would you have a recommendation for a repalcement display?

Thanks a ton.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by dpddj

Great info - hoping you might be able to help me. I have been looking at the LCJ-CV7SF. I would like to go with the wireless for atop the masthead. Tired of the ospreys and their perching habits.

I still have the Raymarine ST60+ wind display (old NEMA 0183), in working condition. My chartplotter is a Raymarine e95 so I also have NEMA 2000 available.
Would you know if I'd be able to LJC masthead unit to work with the old ST60+ wind display? Or... would you have a recommendation for a repalcement display?

Thanks a ton.

I doubt the LCJ-CV7SF would display on the ST60.

Did you read on the LCJ site?

We do not recommend using the CV7SF wind sensor for feeding the autopilot in wind mode.

I don't know your intended use for this sensor, but it seem like lesser solution that what you already have.