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Old 12-03-2014, 05:31   #46
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Don't try this in Adelaide folks. There's another name for that sort of thing here. Something to do with fishing for really big fish.
Ha!. I have just been sailing around there. Swimming and taking photos of these guys was a highlight, but you do need to keep a lookout to avoid becoming entree for the white pointers.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:45   #47
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

You are rightfully worried about going over the side while single handing. Your chances of getting back on board are slim even if you go over the side while tethered due to the likely conditions at the time. Your best chance of getting back on board is having someone else on board in lieu of single handing.
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:15   #48
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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A quick thanks to 'Chemist' , 'Phoenician' & 'Oregon Waterman' who obvisously understood the nature of my enquiry and supplied some great info. To the rest, try sailing in warmer water that is not 200nm from land. If u wear a lifejacket (as I do with a personal EPIRB attached) there's a good chance u might just survive!!!
Survive, sure! Get back on your boat.. unlikely.

Rather than debate it though, why not go out with your line dragging, life jacket on and someone at the helm. Jump in and see if you can get the line and pull your self back to the boat. Let us know how it works out.

While there have been methods offered, I don't think anyone has actually said they have done it. It's very different from thinking you will be able to do something than actually doing it.

The best solution is simply to not let yourself go over board - there's plenty of good ways to accomplish that. First of which is not be in a position of being knocked over board, second is always being secured to the boat with a line short enough to not allow you to go over at all.

Edit - I shoudl have clarified that the above is more in reference to trailing a line. Having a device that puts the boat into the wind or otherwise stops it, your chances of getting to it and back on are better.
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:48   #49
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

Many moons ago I had a Pearson 26 that had a tiller pilot. The arm of the pilot just rested on a pin on the tiller - didn't lock or anything. I would tie a line to the stern, run it under the tiller pilot arm and tie it to myself.

The theory being if I went over the side, the line would pull the arm of the pilot up and off the tiller, allowing the boat to go head to wind. The Pearson had a cutout in the transon for the outboard making it quite close to the water. I figured I'd be able to climb out of the water via the outboard.

I don't know if any of that would have worked, as I luckily never went over the side.
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:14   #50
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

As far as I know, every singlehander in the Vendee Globe, most of whom are far more fit than weekend tow in surfers, has been lost at sea after falling overboard.

So I do not think its likely that you need to worry about it, or waste time with gadgets.

Of course, one famous single hander who fell overboard was saved, as she fell in with her phone, so she called home, a search ensued, and she was found.

So there is a chance.

Female solo sailor saved by mobile phone after falling overboard - Telegraph
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:32   #51
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

You can use a tether and jackline. If you are an out of shape old geezer, use a short tether and a very tight jackline or just tether from point to point.

Are you able to do a pullup to get back into the boat? That's my method at this time and age. (nearing 60) I use the stern rail.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:36   #52
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
Survive, sure! Get back on your boat.. unlikely.

Rather than debate it though, why not go out with your line dragging, life jacket on and someone at the helm. Jump in and see if you can get the line and pull your self back to the boat. Let us know how it works out.

While there have been methods offered, I don't think anyone has actually said they have done it. It's very different from thinking you will be able to do something than actually doing it.

The best solution is simply to not let yourself go over board - there's plenty of good ways to accomplish that. First of which is not be in a position of being knocked over board, second is always being secured to the boat with a line short enough to not allow you to go over at all.

Edit - I shoudl have clarified that the above is more in reference to trailing a line. Having a device that puts the boat into the wind or otherwise stops it, your chances of getting to it and back on are better.
There have been other threads where this same discussion came up. Few have gone out and tried it. Especially the young ones that tout their ability. If I remember correctly of those that actually tried it none made it back aboard.

On my Gemini, in 15 knots, close reach, boat speed 7 knots, my two sons would hang off a rope from the stern. They would jump off the bow and catch the line as it went by. They had great fun BUT with the first one grabbing the line for the first time, in about 10 seconds the boat speed went to 3 knots. (Even I can do that in calm conditions) So that don't really count does it?

Maybe if your long trip line just pulled out a parachute there would be fewer confounding (Rube Goldberg) lines and levers in the tiller/wheel/autopilot area. It sure would stop the boat.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:43   #53
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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....

Are you able to do a pullup to get back into the boat? That's my method at this time and age. (nearing 60) I use the stern rail.
I'm nearly your age. After viewing the youTube difficulties of the young guy trying repeatedly to reboard a yacht from an inflatable off Pitcairn a year ago, dropping into the water each time, I wondered if I could have done as well, let alone better.

I checked to see if I could still do even a single pullup (chinup) and found to my dismay I couldn't. I had memories of being a little kid, watching some skinny little runt effortlessly doing something which was completely beyond me.

So ... for the last year or so, I've spent a few minutes a day (when I first get up, and last thing at night) doing chinups. Initially I had to stand on a box so I was pulling up with bent arms, until I could manage one free-hanging.

I can now easily do ten, from the free-hanging situation. This morning I did 14 straight, for the first time ever.

At first, I had to be very careful not to overdo it and pull a muscle, and my stomach muscles would ache. But the careful progress has done wonders for my core strength.

It doesn't make me any keener about falling off the boat, but it does reassure me that (at least in this one respect) it's not necessary to equate age with weakness.

At the same time I've been working on quads, and pushups, so as not to end up with an over-specialised physique - but I don't find it takes long, and doesn't need any gym equipment.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:52   #54
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

Trailing a line without it being set up to stop the boat strikes me as dangling false hope. I'm not surprised, Therapy, that no-one bothered testing that proposal. It seems to me to offer very limited benefit indeed, virtually zero in the case of single-hander.

Whenever this discussion comes up, most of those who promote the idea are talking about a tripline which stops the boat, and most of those who denigrate it are talking about a different idea: a simple fixed line.

A classic cross-purpose discussion, whose result is the opposite of enlightenment.
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Old 12-03-2014, 13:20   #55
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

At the risk of sounding like Mr Spock, logic dictates that one should expend the majority of effort on keeping from going over the side in the first place, particularly in cold water cruising such as encountered where I am (British Columbia/Alaska) since the relative cold of the water greatly reduces one's chances of survival once overboard.
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Old 12-03-2014, 13:24   #56
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Trailing a line without it being set up to stop the boat strikes me as dangling false hope. I'm not surprised, Therapy, that no-one bothered testing that proposal. It seems to me to offer very limited benefit indeed, virtually zero in the case of single-hander.

Whenever this discussion comes up, most of those who promote the idea are talking about a tripline which stops the boat, and most of those who denigrate it are talking about a different idea: a simple fixed line.

A classic cross-purpose discussion, whose result is the opposite of enlightenment.
I'm guessing folks trail the line to help that nightmare go away of the boat sailing off without them. I always think of learning to water ski as a child. After drinking several gallons of water you usually let go of the rope after you fall.

Now if you are practiced at the " dragging a line in the water technique " and have developed a good method maybe it would work. But it should be practiced.

You are being pulled much slower than when trying to water ski, but I'm thinking you will still need a technique and be in reasonable shape to reenter the boat with tired muscles if you are actually able to pull yourself back.
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Old 12-03-2014, 13:32   #57
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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At the risk of sounding like Mr Spock, logic dictates that one should expend the majority of effort on keeping from going over the side in the first place, particularly in cold water cruising such as encountered where I am (British Columbia/Alaska) since the relative cold of the water greatly reduces one's chances of survival once overboard.
That's what I was thinking after doing several races singlehanded in water temps in the high 30's/ low 40's which is when I pulled the tether out for going to the mast.

Even though we were within 5 miles of land and a mile or so from a bridge with water at those temps I wouldn't want to test it.

Plus sometimes we would be on opposite tacks and be miles apart in our racing (a two boat match race if you call an Alberg 30 vs a Bristol 27 a race!) so we might not even know if the other guy fell in.

Then there are all the clothes you have on to deal with. You are going to have to get rid of most of them to swim decently..........
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Old 12-03-2014, 15:20   #58
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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Have any of you done the math to convert knots to feet per second? I think you'd find the 250 foot ropes woefully inadequate in terms of the time you'd have to surface from your fall, re-orient and swim to the rope. Even with a leisurely calm weather boat speed, you'd be unlikely to make it. A much longer rope would improve your chances but then there are other downsides to that (longer way to pull yourself, more drag, snagging crossing traffic etc.)

Also, even if you could get the boat to round up (easier to rig with tiller steering) the rate of drift would likely match or exceed your swimming speed, especially if wearing PFD and clothing.
Was just playing around with some numbers on the MS Calculator Plus app (which doesn't do all conversions, so had to go back and forth a bit)--
A reasonable average sail vessel speed chosen for ease of conversions is 10km/h, or 5.4knots:
10km/h = 5.4kt
10km/h = 2.77777m/s = 546.79ft/min or 9.11feet/sec

2.78m/s x 30sec = 83.4m, 273.62feet
2.78m/s x 45sec = 125.1m, 410.43feet
2.78m/s x 1min = 166.8m, 547.24feet/min ( ~1/10 of a mile)
2.78m/s x 2min = 333.6m, 1,094.48feet ( ~1/5 of a mile )

I would guess that the reaction time of somebody going overboard would be at a very minimum, 30 seconds, much more likely to be more than a minute (I have some practical experience falling off Hobie Cat's, ).

As you can see, by the end of a mere thirty seconds, the boat is close to 300 feet away; any more seconds, leading to minutes, and the boat is doing a horizon job on you.
Advice: carry a bag of chum in your jacket and get it over quickly...of course if you do manage to grab that line it will be more sporting to troll for those big carcharodons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcharodon .
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Old 12-03-2014, 15:49   #59
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

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Ha!. I have just been sailing around there. Swimming and taking photos of these guys was a highlight, but you do need to keep a lookout to avoid becoming entree for the white pointers.
That looks like you might have been somewhere near Venus bay?

Matt
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Old 12-03-2014, 16:28   #60
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Re: Man Overboard with Auto Pilot Engaged!

Oh Cf...my my.
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