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Old 16-07-2011, 15:29   #856
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
yes, add a nifty picostation m2hp to the system to complete it with wifi access for all the gadgets aboard

It's best to config the ap as bridge.

ciao!
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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post


Just for fun you should connect the picostation to the computer and config it into station mode just like the Bullet. This will show you how well that little antenna works and it gives you a benchmark that must be beat by any other antenna solution. In 90% of all cases the little picostation is all that's needed for a link

ciao!
Nick.
I think I'd like to get the picostation connected to the bullet and then my wireless from the laptop connected to the picostation.
I could sure use some guidance on that front ;-) ;-)

"It's best to config the ap as bridge" ?? ??

Anyone have a link to another well/clearly written howto??

Cheers,
Extemp.
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Old 16-07-2011, 17:39   #857
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

Oh that's *great* Nick, Now I have to go buy a pico-station... grrrr...

George
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Old 16-07-2011, 20:08   #858
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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Anyone have a link to another well/clearly written howto??
No link but here it goes; the bullet in station mode as uplink and the picostation in bridge mode for boat-wide (and beyond if you want) access to your uplink.

Bullet: station + router. Follow the guide you got. It tells you to put some IP address on the Ethernet port and to activate DHCP to issue IP nrs from that same range (= network). Now, make sure that the DHCP range you specify there is not all addresses, just a bunch. Eample: the Ethernet gets 192.168.0.1 with netmask 255.255.255.0. This means the network range usable by stations is from 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.254. Give DHCP less than that, for example 192.168.0.100 - 192.168.0.200.

Picostation: AP + bridge. Make up a name for your Wifi network, like the name of your boat. Specify access-point mode and bridge mode. On the Ethernet, set a fixed IP that falls outside the DHCP range of the router. In my example here, give it 192.168.0.2 with mask 255.255.255.0

On the power injectors of both units, take a cable and connect it to the LAN connector of each power injector.

Now if you connect your laptop using Wifi to your picostation, the picostation will be transparent, meaning it is like you connected to the Ethernet port of the Bullet. The Bullet will give you an IP with DHCP and there you go. If you want access to the Bullet, you go to http://192.168.0.1 and for access to the Picostation use http://192.168.0.2

Of course, you can connect a hundred stations to your single Internet link in this example instead of just one

I skip most settings, these are just the important ones. Take power level of both radios way down, they will be too powerful otherwise which kills your link. Learn to control that power, only use just enough to make the link for best results (like shouting in the mike of your VHF doesn't work).

Also, check the firmware in the radios and upgrade it to the latest version when you have the new M2 radios. You can download it from Ubiquiti Networks, Inc.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 16-07-2011, 21:03   #859
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

I've been using the wirie for the past few months, and have found it works quite well. I have no problems recommending it - it's well built, clearly designed for boaters and the conditions we face...you can check it out at The Wirie and The WirieAP: Marine WiFi and RV WiFi solutions
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Old 16-07-2011, 21:04   #860
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

Thanks Nick, that was quick.
I won't be able to play until I get another injector (won't be long), but thank for the guidance.
I guess I could disconnect the bullet (to use the injector) and then hookup and configure the Picostation. Perhaps tomorrow.

Thanks again!
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Old 16-07-2011, 21:30   #861
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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I won't be able to play until I get another injector (won't be long), but thank for the guidance.
The picostation comes with an AC POE adapter, right? Use that on inverter until you get the DC injector

ciao!
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Old 16-07-2011, 22:38   #862
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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The picostation comes with an AC POE adapter, right? Use that on inverter until you get the DC injector

ciao!
Nick.
Yes except that because I don't have the 48 Volt plug to go into the DC injector, I'm using the Picostation AC to DC injector for the Bullet :-)

won't be long

Extemp.
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Old 17-07-2011, 11:21   #863
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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With all due respect I don't believe the numbers they post. This is really quite simple. If you recall that an isotropic antenna radiates equally in all directions and assume that an omnidirectional antenna has a perfect radiation pattern in all directions on a horizontal plane we can use the swept area of the pattern vertically compared to the total swept area of an isotropic antenna to determine the vertical bandwidth (ignoring shaping for simplicity - not a significant factor) we can get numbers for a perfect antenna (not reality).

So for a 10 degree beamwidth (+/- 5 degrees) the gain is 15 dB. Accordingly, a manufacturer citing 20 and 30 degrees beamwidth is using something substantially different than the standard 3 dB points.

I don't think the minimum distance is really a factor in the real world. As Nick and I have both said in different words if one is close enough you can load up a wet noodle and get a connection.

I believe the real issue is that at a distance gain, pattern, and Fresnel effects drive useful range.

Remember that for a real pattern the beamwidth, if properly specified, is to the 3 dB points. There is still signal beyond those angles but the range won't be as far since the gain is reduced.

That's why I would (given time) run numbers for lower gain antennas to see what should work better at various heights ASL.

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I see 3 dB used a lot in the above posts with respect to signal strength and antenna patterns. The 3 dB value is used as a reference because it describes the halving or doubling of the effective radiated power. And not coincidently, it is also the minimum change in effective radiated power the human ear can detect.
The 3 dB points aren't magic. They are a convention to allow apples to apples comparisons. The "minimum change in effective radiated power the human ear can detect" isn't relevant to DSP. Sometimes a dB or less can move a signal from processable to noise.

References: 10 years working for the federal government on small signal acquisition and 2 years on measurement of returns on US military stealth objects.

If I've missed something please let me know. For now, I believe E-plane plots more than numbers in a table without any backup.

YMMV.
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Old 17-07-2011, 17:31   #864
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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If I've missed something please let me know. For now, I believe E-plane plots more than numbers in a table without any backup.

YMMV.
What you have missed is that although an antenna may look like a monopole it may in fact be an array of antennas. As such, it is possible to make tradeoffs between radiation pattern, radiation angle, and gain. It is certainly possible to design an omnidirectional antenna that has a 30 degree radiation pattern, with a look down angle of 10 degrees, and a gain of 15 dBi. Being tall it might look more like a CB antenna then a WIFI antenna, but it is well within the range of possibility.

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Old 17-07-2011, 17:46   #865
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

Hey guys.... Just wanted to point out the “official” language of CF is English! ‘Cuz I have NO IDEA what language you are talking! LOL!
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Old 17-07-2011, 18:18   #866
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
What you have missed is that although an antenna may look like a monopole it may in fact be an array of antennas. As such, it is possible to make tradeoffs between radiation pattern, radiation angle, and gain. It is certainly possible to design an omnidirectional antenna that has a 30 degree radiation pattern, with a look down angle of 10 degrees, and a gain of 15 dBi.
You're going to have to show me the math or independent empirical testing because I don't believe it. Array or not, one can't passively make energy out of thin air. "Gain" in an antenna, regardless of the number of elements, comes from the pattern, putting more energy in desired directions and less in undesired ones. The total energy is not increased. The math and the real world are very clear.
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Old 17-07-2011, 21:33   #867
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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Hey guys.... Just wanted to point out the “official” language of CF is English! ‘Cuz I have NO IDEA what language you are talking! LOL!
If you're talking about post #864, I understood it perfectly !


Former electronic tech,
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Old 17-07-2011, 22:23   #868
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

For long range, why not just get the 1000mW gsky adapter for $15? Set it to run at 1mbit, you will get much less dropped packets than if you try to run at higher bit rates.

Then to improve it a bit more, get a directional antenna and rig it to a servo to automatically aim when you swing at anchor. I did this and I was able to get a much stronger connection using 16dbi directional than 5 or 8 dbi omni.
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Old 17-07-2011, 22:36   #869
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

If you want the ultimate omni solution, get the new AMO2G13 antenna from Ubiquity. You do need a Rocket (top model) radio for it but then you do get 2x2 MiMo omni-directional with 13 dBi gain and both vertical and horizontal polarization. Downtilt too, but only 7 degree vertical angle. If you download the spec-sheet you get to see the diagrams too.

AirMax Omni | Ubiquiti Networks, Inc.

ciao!
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Old 18-07-2011, 07:10   #870
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Re: Long-Distance WiFi Device

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Wow. 57 pages at the moment and still going strong...

You know, it would be really great if some of the successful installations (and pros) could write up a series of articles on the wiki explaining getting wifi on the boat along with a couple of 'recipes' for reasonable deck-level and permanent installations. (Plus an experts article going into the math, etc?)

You can link to this wiki if you want, lots of info already here:

Wi-Fi on a Boat - Wireless Wiki

Just to avoid duplication.
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