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Old 02-01-2010, 05:22   #391
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Originally Posted by Jack C View Post
Bryan and Wendy,

Yes, you can connect bridge type devices like the bullet to a wireless router and get wireless on board.

An alternative is to go with a repeater WiFi unit which once it is setup will repeat the hot spot or access point locally. We use a repeater on our boat. The advantage of the repeater is that it has the same high power for repeating which is more than the typical wireless router, you have only one device, your power consumption is less than half and you only have to setup one device. The only downside which will not really apply is that the radio is shared between communication to the hot spot and the client which halves the available bandwidth. As the bandwidth is 54 Megs, half is way more than you would ever get from a hot spot.

Regarding "ease of use". If you go for the bullet and a wireless router, check that you are able to setup and scan for hot spots on the bullet via a computer connected via wireless or directly to the router. I have ordered a bullet for experimenting with but it appears that they will only be available sometime this month so I can't answer, maybe Bob can.

The repeater I use has a simple scan web page where I scan and select a hot spot and then the unit remembers the hot spot and connects automatically whenever it is turned on. The interface is designed for the typical user rather than a networking professional. You do have to be physically connected to the unit for doing the scan, but once setup you are fully wireless. The power uses the same cat 5 cable with PoE.

Regarding power consumption and wiring. PoE is great. With either the bullet or a repeater I suggest a PoE injector rather than a hack. Injectors are are low cost. Look for a wireless router or repeater that can take 12V DC and is not a power hog. Some Engenius units will take 12V DC. The repeater I use is designed "Green". It takes anything from 9.5 to 48V DC and uses 4 to 8 watts. Commercial wireless routers can run pretty hot depending on their power. For land applications 4 watts or 25 watts makes no difference. For me on a mooring the difference matters. Also the heat has to go somewhere and confined heat will limit electronics life.

Choose your equipment carefully. For the same reason you may have a marine grade stereo system rather than a car system on your boat, understand that land grade electronics can have a limited life in a salt environment. So for indoor parts, look for or add a conformal coating or depending on your use, be prepared to replace periodically. For outdoor components mounted permanently, look for truly waterproof with some sort of standard. NEMA6 or IPX7 is great especially if you have stuff permanently installed outside. Being European you may be more familiar with IEC 60529 IPX7 which is similar but a little less stringent than NEMA6.

An IPX7 designation means the case can withstand accidental immersion in one meter of water for up to 30 minutes. NEMA6 is similar but up to 6 feet.

Really useful when you get pooped with the unit on the rail or with wind driven rain.

And regarding your question about power from a router. I know of no router that provides power on the ethernet cable. You must use an Injector. Many wireless routers will take power from PoE, but make sure that they will accept 12V. Many require 48V which means an inverter and power supply and subsequent losses.

Finally being in the UK and sailing in the Med. Having lived in the UK and the med and visiting often, I have experience with US products that often do not port well to other places. If you stick with 12V DC you are OK with the power. Do be aware that the WiFi channels outside the US are somewhat different, so make sure that all routers, bridges and repeaters have a country setting that is easily accessible so you can setup for where you are. It can make the difference between connecting or not as well as fines or confiscation by the local telecom police.


Finally, as I have said in other posts, be prepared to read and learn if you use devices designed and documented for pro's with network experience. Such devices have limited support and even in the rare case that telephone support is available, it will be expensive from Turkey.

Hope that this helps.

Jack
Thanks again all,
I appreciate the time and expertise here, your point about understanding the technology to become self reliant really struck a chord- I'm competent in all other areas of boat maintenance, however electronics etc is my weak point- so it's got to be mastered. This is now a challenge, so I'm not going to wimp out and go for a USB solution.
Having said that, I'm afraid you have taken me to a new level of confusion. The issue really is that you guys use terminology am just not familiar with. So- if I explain exactly what I'm going to do, with exactly the components I will use, perhaps you can tell me if it will work-here goes!

1) Bullet 2HP-(need to avoid parts manufactured from defective batches. Dont get the bbullet 5HP as it wont work. I believe all variants of the 2HP are OK to use.) This will be attached to the antenna and mounted on the radar arch, some distance from the solar panels to avoid shading. (If i can avoid a trip up the mast, i will!) Connections will be waterproofed
2) POE 15 as from Here
POE-15 - 15 Volt POE .8A with US power cord
This will be powered from the boat 12v supply without regulation/smoothing
3) Wireless router which has 12 v input voltage Linkyss wrtg54g2. This will be connected directly to the boat 12v unregulated or smoothed supply
thanks again in advance!
Bryan
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:43   #392
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Sounds good Bryan. You have described our system pretty much. I'm going for the masthead but that might not be accomplished when we leave here. It's "cold" this time of year and it's one of those jobs that can wait for Florida. Lots of good old WRT-54G routers on craiglist/ebay so have a look there before buying new. And, to confuse matters, not all of those were created equal.

I've got myself around to the point where I really need to go back to school if I want to get any further with networking. So much of the wireless "jargon" goes back to the wired lans that you really have to get a founding before you can get to that "ah-ha!" moment. Or so it seems to me.

George
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:49   #393
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"If everything is weatherproof why the grease? " Because it is cheap insurance and protects against oxidation and corrosion when the weatherproof seals aren't perfect. Even the most waterproof "diving" watches from the most expensive brands, are only considered waterproof for x many cycles or months, then the seals are expected to fail.

Easier to use grease during assembly, then to come back in two years and find the whole fitting needs to be replaced. A good silicon grease is non-migrating and will protect the surfaces "forever".
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Old 04-01-2010, 20:18   #394
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PoE Supply

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan and wendy View Post
Thanks again all,
I appreciate the time and expertise here, your point about understanding the technology to become self reliant really struck a chord- I'm competent in all other areas of boat maintenance, however electronics etc is my weak point- so it's got to be mastered. This is now a challenge, so I'm not going to wimp out and go for a USB solution.
Having said that, I'm afraid you have taken me to a new level of confusion. The issue really is that you guys use terminology am just not familiar with. So- if I explain exactly what I'm going to do, with exactly the components I will use, perhaps you can tell me if it will work-here goes!

1) Bullet 2HP-(need to avoid parts manufactured from defective batches. Dont get the bbullet 5HP as it wont work. I believe all variants of the 2HP are OK to use.) This will be attached to the antenna and mounted on the radar arch, some distance from the solar panels to avoid shading. (If i can avoid a trip up the mast, i will!) Connections will be waterproofed
2) POE 15 as from Here
POE-15 - 15 Volt POE .8A with US power cord
This will be powered from the boat 12v supply without regulation/smoothing
3) Wireless router which has 12 v input voltage Linkyss wrtg54g2. This will be connected directly to the boat 12v unregulated or smoothed supply
thanks again in advance!
Bryan
Bryan,

Almost there, but I noticed that the PoE you linked to appears to require AC not 12VDC which means inverter and associated losses etc.

A PoE that takes 12 V and gives out 12 to 24 V may be a better choice. I believe that you may find one also at streakwave. I have one and will be testing my bullet 2HP with it. My bullet shipped today. Hopefully will arrive by weekend.

Let us know how you manage with the software side.

Jack C
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Old 05-01-2010, 13:36   #395
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Bryan,

Almost there, but I noticed that the PoE you linked to appears to require AC not 12VDC which means inverter and associated losses etc.

A PoE that takes 12 V and gives out 12 to 24 V may be a better choice. I believe that you may find one also at streakwave. I have one and will be testing my bullet 2HP with it. My bullet shipped today. Hopefully will arrive by weekend.

Let us know how you manage with the software side.

Jack C
Thanks Jack, I had'nt noticed that it was AC. 12v units seem few and far between. However, although it's called an 'injector', as its passive, it is really only a connection box, isn't it?
Bryan
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Old 05-01-2010, 14:04   #396
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Titan Wireless has a representative selection of passive POE's. Most consist of 2 RJ45 jacks mounted on a printed circuit board along with a 2.1 x 5.5 mm barrel jack for power.

You can find these online at most wireless equipment vendors.
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Old 05-01-2010, 14:10   #397
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If the "device" accepts power by PoE, who needs a power supply when you've already got ship's power at 12 volts? Why not just cut the jacket on the ethernet cable, pull out the "power" leads, and connect them directly to the ship's power?

The device itself usually will regulate the nominal 12v down to just what it needs, making anything else a redundant expense.
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Old 05-01-2010, 15:24   #398
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If the "device" accepts power by PoE, who needs a power supply when you've already got ship's power at 12 volts? Why not just cut the jacket on the ethernet cable, pull out the "power" leads, and connect them directly to the ship's power?

The device itself usually will regulate the nominal 12v down to just what it needs, making anything else a redundant expense.
Hellosailor-that's exactly what I thought, but surely there must be more to it than that?
Bryan
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Old 05-01-2010, 15:53   #399
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A passive POE doesn't provide any sort of regulation. It is a simple breakout box. You can slit the cable jacket, pull out the appropriate power wires and connect directly to ships power but in the long run most people will be glad they spent $5 for a simple passive POE.
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Old 05-01-2010, 17:24   #400
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Agreed. Among other things, the CAT5 spec is about impedance and noise. If you go butchering the wire you can cause all sorts of hard to diagnose problems. To complicate things there are several standards for POE. Generally 4&5 are + and 7&8 are - but some old Cisco and D-Link pickers are reversed. Rare but on occasion the power will be superimposed on 1&2 and 3&6.

Buy the injector and ditch the wall wart. Wall warts have poor regulation anyway. just come off ship's power to the injector. If your run is under 30' end to end (60' round trip) the voltage drop at the Bullet 2HP will be about .6V. If you are going to the masthead it might be a good idea to invest in a DC/DC boost converter to get up to 24VDC but then you are talking anything from $20 to $80 more.
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Old 05-01-2010, 18:06   #401
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Bryan-
Injector = breakout box = Heck, if they're only $5 it doesn't pay to muck around cutting cables. And I'd still put silicon grease in the sockets, even below deck. I've seen gold flashed telco connections punk out from better environments.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:33   #402
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If your run is under 30' end to end (60' round trip) the voltage drop at the Bullet 2HP will be about .6V. If you are going to the masthead it might be a good idea to invest in a DC/DC boost converter to get up to 24VDC but then you are talking anything from $20 to $80 more.
There is no need for an input voltage above nominal 12 vdc until you get cable runs well over 100'. Here's a voltage drop calculator for CAT5 cable. It takes into account the effective gauge of the twisted 24 gauge pair and the actual current needed by the load. A Bullet 2HP draws around 0.3-0.4 amps in normal operation.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:50   #403
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That works if both the injector and picker use all 4 wires. (a pair of 24ga = ~21ga)Also the 150' is the total run out and back so the net would be 75'.
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Old 06-01-2010, 11:35   #404
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That works if both the injector and picker use all 4 wires. (a pair of 24ga = ~21ga)Also the 150' is the total run out and back so the net would be 75'.
Most common passive POE's use 2 pairs for power as do all Ubiquiti products. The calculator I referenced in my previous post has taken into account the round trip distance so all you have to do is input the actual cable length you want to use.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:30   #405
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It's not the cost of the injector box, it's where to buy one in the UK. Most people I speak to has never even heard of one. All the ones I see advertised are not passive. So it could be the knife.....
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