LEDs for Less Power Consumption

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by dennisail

What lamps are you running now? Are they an LED?

My apologies that I can't directly answer your question. I took a quickie root-around in my electrical bin and didn't see the single bulb I still have in original packaging.

I pulled one out of a fixture, and it doesn't have any labeling on it. I did discover that I'd miscounted, and there are 15 elements in it.

It's white, sort of shaped like half a rugby football, with two pins on the pointed end. They don't seem to be polarity-sensitive.

A quickie look at my supplier, svhotwire.com, suggests that they may be Dr. LEDs, but since there's no picture, I couldn't swear to that. Worse, a look at the Dr. LED catalog shows nothing like I have.

So, yes, what I have is 15-element halogen replacement LEDs. Spot lighting only, in the bulkhead fixtures.

Because they're so much broader, and WAY more light, we use high-efficiency 1-2-or-3 bulb fluorescents, but we've never used more than one bulb, over the sink, over the galley countertop, for the two of us reading in bed (other than in the vee, which has a bulkhead light but also red rope lighting appropriately located, bright enough to read by, in a 7' length, one element every 4"), and in the aft head (in a Morgan 46, the aft head is enormous, and the fixture is in a dry location). These also came from svhotwire, but, even though I've bought more from him relatively recently, they don't show up on his site. These pull about a tenth of an amp.

FWIW, click the gallery link below (or "web folio" if it translates it for you), and look at our interior shots; it will give you a somewhat better idea of how we do our lighting.

HTH

L8R

Skip, aboard Morgan 461 #2, SV Flying Pig KI4MPC - currently in Hopetown, Abaco Bahamas

[dennisail]

Thanks for clearing that up. It sounds like the LEDs you have are like the hundreds of choices that are on ebay.

Take a look at these for example. They might not be as good as the sensibulb but for 15 times cheaper you can afford to throw them out. I have purchased a few different ones to test out. The variety is mind boggling. I refuse to believe that out of all these ebay ones, all are garbage. Everything is made in china these days anyway. It might take some experimentation to find a good one though. But for a few bucks its worth a try I think.

$3 delivered.



1x 36 LED STOP REAR TURN BRAKE CAR TAIL LIGHT BULB LAMP - eBay LED Lights, Lights, Indicators, Car, Truck Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 24-Oct-10 18:47:36 AEDST)

But they might not be bright enough?

Try this one for $10 delivered with 68 surface mount LEDs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-Car...#ht_3607wt_948

These ones apparently replace your car headlights so I would think they would be bright enough and for $11 shipped for 2. I got some just to try out. The socket is the wrong type though.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....ht_4052wt_1145



2 x 30 surface mound LEDs for $14.50 shipped. Too cheap not to try so I just got some of those too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2X-30...#ht_4137wt_852



I'll let you know how they go.

[dennisail]

Here you go 63 leds for $15. 270ma thats 3.8W. And 3.8W of LED is a lot of light. I didnt buy this one though. I think I have enough for now. I cant possibly search them all there are THOUSANDS of listings for these things. I urge you all to take a look.

12V 63-LED Auto RV Marine Boat Anchor Light 1142 BA15D: eBay Motors (item 140459650337 end time Oct-28-10 13:40:17 PDT)

[gettinthere]

dennissail
please do follow up after testing. make sure you run them for a while to see if any burn out.
Thanks

[donradcliffe]

Most led bulb circuits control current to keep them from burning out. The sensibulbs actually control temperature, which is really the key parameter. They should feel warm, as they are driving the leds to maximimum safe temperatures. We have used one sensibulb for 3 years as a test, and it is still going strong. For the rest of our light replacements, we have used marinebeam.com--they have quite a number of mounting options, and we have not seen any RFI.

The industry is still shaking out, and I suspect that someone is going to sell good replacement bulbs at a good price and blow the competition out of the water. A lot of these bulbs are made by hand, and have to be much more expensive than an assembly-line operation.

[mikereed100]

I've been putting my own together from ledsupply.com. Using a Buckpuck controller with potentiometer I notice some RFI on weak FM stations, but between Itunes and Pandora I don't listen to the radio anymore so it hasn't been an issue.

Mike

[GeoPowers]

We have all interior lighting LED's- some are sensibulb (both original and recessed puck light G4 version), and some are Ebay'ers. The Ebay'ers perform well, and IMO all produce warm light for an LED (our biggest factor on deciding which ones to buy). The biggest difference I saw between the Sensibulbs and E-Bay puck lights was the amperage draw on the E-bay ones were sometimes more than advertised, i.e. instead of .18 amp draw per bulb, it actually drew .24 A. I suspect that companies are selling 75, 90, 100 and 140 lumen bulbs, but really only have one or two sizes- 90 and 140! Not a big deal unless you are really pinching watts, but something to be aware of.

I've had no failures from either bulb. We live-aboard so they get used all the time.

[capt_douglas]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Yeah at ~$35 a bulb for interior and a 10x the price for running they're not cheap, but seriously all interior and running lights on with maybe 2 amp draw (for my boat anyway)? Hard to beat.

True, but it's also the heat the incandescent bulbs generate, and the need for spare bulbs. Despite having fans and an open hatch, the interior of the boat gets warmer than when turned off. And if it's raining it can get very warm.

[dennisail]

Originally Posted by GeoPowers

We have all interior lighting LED's- some are sensibulb (both original and recessed puck light G4 version), and some are Ebay'ers. The Ebay'ers perform well, and IMO all produce warm light for an LED (our biggest factor on deciding which ones to buy). The biggest difference I saw between the Sensibulbs and E-Bay puck lights was the amperage draw on the E-bay ones were sometimes more than advertised, i.e. instead of .18 amp draw per bulb, it actually drew .24 A. I suspect that companies are selling 75, 90, 100 and 140 lumen bulbs, but really only have one or two sizes- 90 and 140! Not a big deal unless you are really pinching watts, but something to be aware of.

I've had no failures from either bulb. We live-aboard so they get used all the time.

Thanks for the input. Do you have a link to the ebay ones you used?

[GeoPowers]

Sure, here you go:


Warm White 100 Lumen G4 Base 10 SMD LED Bulb 12V AC DC - eBay (item 370178131941 end time Oct-14-10 18:13:45 PDT)

I got the 100 lumen version for all the puck area lights, but the 65 lumen for the puck reading lights, which were plenty bright enough to read while not waking the wife.

One more tidbit: Sailor's solutions will give you a 10% discount if you say you read about/saw the reviews of their Sensibulb products on Cruisers' Forum.

Frank

[dennisail]

I got some LEDs today. This one came 1x 36 LED STOP REAR TURN BRAKE CAR TAIL LIGHT BULB LAMP - eBay LED Lights, Lights, Indicators, Car, Truck Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 24-Oct-10 18:47:36 AEDST)

Its a stop lamp type socket and the pin setup is different to a turn signal, but all I did was filed off one of the pins on the side and it fits into a turn signal socket (as mostly used on yacht lamp fittings). Stop lights are the most plentiful and cheapest on ebay to this is good to know. It draws 27ma so about 3.5W.

The set of 2 of these came but one already doesn't work from new. 2 X Car H7 68 SMD LED White Headlight Bulbs Light NEW - eBay Headlights, Lights, Indicators, Car, Truck Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 20-Oct-10 16:58:15 AEDST)

The socket type inst really usable without mods. But its bright and draws 32ma, so about 4.6W

I will do some more testing tonight and pull them apart to see if they have any ICs inside which might allude to them being switchmode controlled.

I will only know how bright they really are when I swap them out for the the old ones in the boat for a real comparison.

[dennisail]

I pulled both LEDs apart and they have no ICs so they won't produce interference. The broken car headlamp LED just had a dud solder joint in the base. It took about 10min each to unsolder the headlamp style base and fit the bases from broken turn signal lamps so they will now fit into most boat lamp holders.

The current ratings in my last post were for 14V. For 12.5V the car headlamp LED draws 27ma and the stoplamp draws 11ma or 5 ma depending on which pins on the bottom you hook up. I just soldered them together so I can put it into a turn signal socket and it will run at 11ma. So these are basic LEDs with no fancy electronics. They will get dimmer and brighter (with subsequent current changes) as the input voltage varies. This could be seen as a good thing as when you have plenty of power to go around they will be bright and using more current, and when your engine/windgen stops they will automatically reduce power consumption. As long as they still put out enough light at around the 12V mark to fulfill their purpose.

When it gets dark I will do a light comparison with a normal lamp that draws 1.5A or 18W. The 18W seems to be brighter but by no means five and a half time brighter as its its current draw might suggest.

What wattage incandescent (normal bulbs) are cruisers using on their boats and for what purpose? Reading? Navlights? Cabin illumination? Head? etc My aim is to compare the light output of incandescent to various LEDs VS power consumption.

[dennisail]

Sorry about my last measurements, add a 0 on the end of my ma readings.

I just got these ones 2X 30 White SMD LED 1157 BAY15D P21/5W Stop light bulbs - eBay (item 320597525456 end time Oct-10-10 02:24:18 PDT)

The only draw 80 or 160ma depending on which pin you connect. On the high setting they are noticeably brighter than the other one I tested which draws 110ma and not much duller than the car headlamp ones which draw 270.

I also got an alleged 5W cree camping head torch which is powered by 3 x 1.5V AAA batteries. CREE LED 300Lm 5W Flashlight Head Light Torch Headlamp - eBay (item 150424782026 end time Nov-13-10 00:18:15 PST) I say alleged because the voltage going to the LED was only 3.5 V and it drew 500ma, that makes the consumption only 1.8W. This wattage is lowest out of all the LEDs I tested and the single LED (with the headlamp lens removed) provides a 45 degree of VERY bright light. Much, much brighter than all of the others. I would say the sensibulbs use a similar LED. The problem is they use 3.4 volts. You could add resistors to drop the voltage to from 12 to 3.4 bur the resistors would use 75% of the power with only 25% going to the light. The end result would be 7w power consumption. But if you ran 3 of them in series with just one resistor you would have 3 times the light for the same 7w. Current draw would be 500ma, or 0.5 of an amp. (you could possibly run 4 for ultimate efficiency but that could be problematic) The other prob would be mounting the LEDs in a way which allows the heat to escape. The head torches have a turned alloy snout which acts as a heat sink. Anyway I will continue to experiment when I get back from cruising bass strait.

Thats all the ones I ordered off ebay so far.

Regarding those head torches I recommend every cruiser get themselves one or a few just to have on the boat. For $4 delivered you cant go wrong. I purchased 12 of them because as soon as my friends and workmates saw them they all wanted one. These things are so bright they will shine a quarter mile (just) on a zoom setting and a few mounted on your mast would be good enough for deck lights.

[Jon Hacking]

We're just converting over to LEDs now. I've found a great source in China (http://LightingGreen.cn). They're a factory & seem to work more on Instant Messaging than just the website. I was talking to Jessie (skype://bylight-6), who was very helpful & she speaks good English. They take PayPal & the prices were pretty good. Like US$4.04 for G4 replacements using 12 SMD5050 Warm-White chips & current limiters that produce ~130 lumens (more than a 10W G4 halogen)! Lots of other good stuff as well. They don't have stock so there's usually a 1 week delay while they make what you want, but shipping was by DHL & everything went smoothly.

[Jon Hacking]

I was checking out some of the ebay links posted above. Many of them are claiming 140 lumens out of 10 SMD5050 chips. I think they're stretching things a bit...

My casual research says that a 10W halogen G4 produces about 100 lumens (does anyone have a solid number?) My 10 SMD5050 LED replacements from the US are noticably brighter, but not 40%. I'd guess they're more like 120 Lumens.

So I'd guess that a single SMD5050 LED produces about 12 lumens, but I have no good data. Does anyone know the actual light output of an SMD5050 chip?

The ebay 10 SMD5050 replacements are also about US$10, which will take a while to amortize. Ocelot's got 26 G4 sockets, so price is a consideration. My 12 SMD5050 G4 replacements that I got from China (http://LightingGreen.cn) are only US$4 each, & they're noticably brighter than my US 10-chip units (probably 140-150 lumens). I haven't had them long, but I certainly haven't had a failure of any sort. They all work & my sales rep Jessie checks in with me now & then to make sure they're all working.

Current draw for all of these is about what I'd expect - about 0.01A/SMD5050 segment, so 0.1A for 10 segments, or a bit more for 12 segments. Vastly better than my halogens, so I'm not that interested in the final decimal points. I'm more interested in the amount of light, & the quality of that light. All of mine are "Warm White" which is noticably yellower than the old halogens, but very pleasant & nicer than the harsh blue of "cool-white".

IMHO, LEDs that have no ICs are a problem. They're trying to do current limiting with resistors. But the voltage swings of our 12V systems (12-15v) are such that they burn out LEDs that don't have ACTIVE current limiting. I've blown out 2 Aussie LED masthead lights because of that. Better to have good, active current limiting. I don't have a problem turning off lights to use the SSB (although I've never had to) but I don't want to have to replace LEDs all the time, especially at $10 a pop. A well designed LED cluster will have some capacitors in the circuit to minimize oscillations & RF noise.