Laptop computer aboard

[hellosailor]

The HP "rugged" machines, and I think Dell Hell makes a line also, are all well and good but THE name in rugged laptops would be the Panasonic ToughBook line. Never cheap and usually one generation behind on hardware but that's the one to look at, for a machine that was designed for outdoor use from the very start. You may find something comparable from "two guys in basement" or other smaller vendors, but not in a major brand.

Sailorchic-
I understand that they are using the 19V to charge the nominal 10V battery, which is all well and good. Except...You don't need 19V to do that, and if there's nothing in the computer that needs 10V to run, again, why bother with the higher voltage? If they use a slightly heavier gauge wire to allow for higher amperage...they still don't need higher voltage.
As long as the computer is monkeying around with dc-to-dc voltage conversion to charge the batteries, really, they can start with 12v just as easily as 19. What, they'll have to use a different transformer? And then we wouldn't have to buy 12v adapter bricks, we could just buy cables, with less markup on them?

Toshiba and IBM both used to make 12v laptops over a decade ago. They were chosen for some of the distance races, specifically because they could run on ship's power. (And probably because they were willing to sponsor.(G)

[LoudMusic]

The power adapter situation is less about bulk and more about energy efficiency. Any voltage DC to DC uses less power than going DC to AC and AC to DC. I've read previously DC to DC has something like 95 to 98 % efficiency where DC to AC and AC to DC each have something like 80 to 85 % efficiency. So a small loss once versus a large loss twice.

[jpbronco]

I'm really surprised no one is using Chromebooks. They are significantly more efficient and cheaper. Paired with a Google account, there's no need for MS Office.

[laika]

Another endorsement for Lind 12V adaptors. Also take a look at a site called MacGuvyer. He sells some nice laptop accessories, including a fairly compact 52Ah external battery. I've been using one onboard for years and it's a nice flexible way to power electronics both onboard and ashore.

[Colin A]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

The power adapter situation is less about bulk and more about energy efficiency. Any voltage DC to DC uses less power than going DC to AC and AC to DC. I've read previously DC to DC has something like 95 to 98 % efficiency where DC to AC and AC to DC each have something like 80 to 85 % efficiency. So a small loss once versus a large loss twice.

Looking online it seems the situation is a bit better then it used to be. The company I worked for was experiencing an average life span of under 9 months for the 12V laptop chargers (thinkpad and HP's) So they switched to small inverters and the issue went away. But since these were in running cars not much of an efficiency concern.
My personal experience with after market ones has been poor charging performance and wonky build quality.
Over a decade ago I helped a company build a rig with a laptop running on a AGM battery in a cart to allow all day operation in a warehouse. We found that running a small inverter VS the 12v auto adapter was nearly identical consumption (that little adapter got hot) so I'm assuming what ever they were using inside was extremely inefficient.

That said from a technical stand point I agree DC charging is a much better idea it seems to be more a build quality issue.

Looking online I noticed Dell now uses the before mentioned LIND chargers.

[hellosailor]

Chromebooks are really just a new version of "smart terminal". They are intended to be used "on the network" meaning a broadband internet connection to Gargoyle.

Yes, i know, they can do lots of things offline, but they don't compete with workstation-class laptops. That's why they are also 1/4 the price and weight.

I prefer to have what I need and work offline, unless I need to be online.

[MartinR]

I use a Microsoft Surface for Navigation. This is powered by USB-C and I have installed an USB-outlet in my Nav station. The Surface is reasonably rugged and does not use much energy. I bought mine used. OpenCpn on this. This lives indoors in the Nav station, the display is not good for outdoor use.

As backup and "entertainment" laptop I use an MacBookPro from 2012. This is an excellent laptop, but I feel the surface can easier handle salty fingers and some moisture, so this laptop does not live in the Nav station while sailing. Also OpenCpn on this and also MacENC.

Backup 2 an iPhone plus with Navionics with waterproof case, for use in the cockpit also.

I will probably invest in a Raspberry PI in the future and use the Surface as backup.

[flyingfin]

Buy new, used battery could have limited life based on how prior user operated it. I have always had good luck with HP or Toshiba on board.

Just remember that all computers hate water, so keep them in the cabin.
Your primary navigation should be marine grade, Garmin or SiTex

[mathiasben]

I've been considering purchasing this - https://www.techtough.com/product-pa...oughbook-cf-19

Haven't found much info about the outfit selling these other than what's on their site.

[Reefmagnet]

A 10" or larger tablet can replace a laptop for many functions. A mini pc like an Intel Nuc can substitute for a laptop quite adequately in some applications, too. A combination of both can form the basis of a pretty complete system on board.

On my boat, I have integrated 12 to 19vdc converters into the general electrical system and provided switched outlets for the 19vdc supply.

[Simi 60]

We have a dated HP presario laptop as our main PC for downloading, file transfer, backup nav.

Secondary device that I am impressed with is a chuwi hi10 dual boot tablet with aluminium chasis and magnetic keyboard.


https://m.banggood.com/Chuwi-Hi10-Pl...ottom-alsolike

[Pizzazz]

Some thoughts:

1) Most newer laptops use very little power on average. On my Yoga laptop, the battery is 40 watts and it lasts typically more than 3-4 hours. So, we are talking less than 1A in usage, another 2 amps to charge when needed.

2) I use a waterproof, 12/19V DC/DC converter from Amazon, 57 watts max for $13.99. They may be others but I have been really happy with this one. It says in the description, the conversion efficiency may reach 97%. You can buy 10 of those for the price of the other product mentioned.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

3) Next best option is to have a small inverter, you lose a bit of efficiency but it is robust, quiet (small inverters have no fans) and you can run all sorts of small appliances from them too (TV, phone chargers, printers, etc.).

4) I agree that tablets are great replacement but the productivity on a laptop for work, navigating, weather routing, basically anything but surfing the web is probably 10x higher.

Regards,
Pizzazz

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by mathiasben

I've been considering purchasing this - https://www.techtough.com/product-pa...oughbook-cf-19

Haven't found much info about the outfit selling these other than what's on their site.

We have a couple of the semi toughbooks at work and they are the preferred choice for staff who travel over the other makes. They just work whilst the others are always breaking or batteries going u/s. If you don't mind the smaller screens and the size / weight they would be a good choice.

Pete

[sck5]

Get whatever laptop looks good. Get a chartplotter for navigation. Laptops arent designed to be in the cockpit of a sailboat in bad weather.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

On my boat, I have integrated 12 to 19vdc converters into the general electrical system and provided switched outlets for the 19vdc supply.

I tried that idea.. Unfortunately most "corporate" versions of laptops have circuity to identify a proper power adapter. If they don't find a proper adapter, they allow the device to be powered, but not charge the battery.

There is a way to cut apart a true supply and extract the "one wire" chip that provides this data to the laptop. However that circuity is over most layman's heads.

Dell and Lenovo both have verification circuity in thier higher end devices.