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Old 15-11-2009, 09:43   #1
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KISS - SSB Ground

Has anyone used this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ht_1776wt_1167
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Old 15-11-2009, 10:31   #2
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The listing has been removed !
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Old 15-11-2009, 13:18   #3
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I guess someone is about to use this, whatever it is (was?).
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Old 16-11-2009, 08:53   #4
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Ok, here is a second attempt. Ebay listing: 110457456460

I tried to cut and paste the link twice, but failed.
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Old 16-11-2009, 09:13   #5
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So, for $130 what you are buying is a few pieces of wire, cut to length, connected together, and put inside a tube. It saves you from buying maybe $5 worth of wires, $1 worth of connectors, and spending 15 minutes putting it all together. And, of course, your counterpoise will not be quite as effective, since the wires are all bundled together instead of being spread out like they should be.

I think your money would be better spent buying a Pet Rock.
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Old 16-11-2009, 09:16   #6
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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
So, for $130 what you are buying is a few pieces of wire, cut to length, connected together, and put inside a tube. It saves you from buying maybe $5 worth of wires, $1 worth of connectors, and spending 15 minutes putting it all together. And, of course, your counterpoise will not be quite as effective, since the wires are all bundled together instead of being spread out like they should be.

I think your money would be better spent buying a Pet Rock.
Thank you! This is exactly why I like this forum--you get the straight deal from people.

Thanks for saving me $130
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Old 16-11-2009, 18:10   #7
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After speaking with the owner of the company, the story is a little different. His radials do work, and he offers money back if not satisfied. They are set up for the most common channels used on SSB.
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Old 17-11-2009, 12:42   #8
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Of course his radials work. ANY radial will "work." The question is, how well? And, would something a bit different and less expensive work even better? "Set up for the most common channels used on SSB" simply means that he has cut them to the proper length for those certain frequencies. You can do exactly the same. You can then spread the radials out and they will "work" even better than a bunch of radials all bundled together.

This thing is for people who have more dollars than sense. Read this thread -- http://tinyurl.com/yzjbnoc -- and you will know all you need to know to create a counterpoise that will work far better, and cost a small fraction, of this one for $130. Best of all, in the thread mentioned above, follow the link that btrayfors offers to a posting of his on the SSCA board where he offers all the advice you will need to make your system work very well without spending very much at all.

Again, $130 for a bundle of wires, that you could make yourself in 15 minutes, is a ridiculous waste of money. You are, of course, free to waste that money if you wish, but I would advise against it.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:20   #9
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Guess there is one in every crowd. As the patent owner of the KISS-SSB ground plane system let me say a few things here. I have been a ham radio operator for 40 years since I was 14 years old, all of my career life has been in the radio or electronics field. I have over 60,000 miles under my keel sailing. The KISS-SSB was a real test of over ten years to get perfected at such a great low SWR rating across the board on the SSB frequencies as a few frequencies fight with each other. I wish it was as simple as 15 minutes and a few wires, but it is not. I have made contact with Gordon West from the French Polynesia Islands to his home in Southern California on 40 watts, that is 3,000 miles, I have a friend in Silver City New Mexico that I talked to many times from Fiji in the past few years that is nearly 6,000 miles. Randy the net controller for the Pacific Seafarers Net in Hawaii used us a number of times to help relay other boat check-ins, and that was while we were also in Fiji. The bottom line is this, the KISS-SSB works GREAT, and at the price of copper (600' per each KISS-SSB, copper has gone up 135% this past year, gold went up 45%), labor, taxes and the time spent on R&D the $130.00 dollars is a bargain compared to the over priced bronze plate, copper foil, haul-out, and the messy time installing the whole mess. The name KISS "keep it simple stupid" is just that, let's enjoy paradise, not add more maintenance to it than there already is. Out of hundreds sold there has not been one unhappy customer or return. If you would like to read about our travels this past few years feel free at www dot libertydaze dot com. I will say that at least here at this forum the one critical subject for the KISS-SSB has only been the expense, and not the fact that it works, so that keeps me encourged that the sailing/cruising group is staying informed and enjoys a high degree of education. Feel free also to read page two of the Icom AT-140 tuner manual and it will explain the proven principal of the KISS-SSB ground plane radial system to a short degree. Fair winds and following seas, 73's and a Happy New year to all Carl Nichols RadioTeck
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:41   #10
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Originally Posted by radioteck
Guess there is one in every crowd.
Yeah, I guess there is. In this case I am the "one" who thinks it is better to spend a little bit of time, learn a little bit about what a ground plane is and what radials do, and then save lots of money making a ground plane that works best for your specific circumstances. In this case, I am very happy to be that "one."

My opinion is that your product is over-priced for what it is and for what it does. I have no doubt that it works to a reasonable degree. I also have no doubt that I can make my own ground plane, in very little time, for much less money, that will work even better. I suppose that, for someone who prefers to spend money rather than learn, your product is a viable alternative.

On the other hand, anyone who prefers to spend money rather than learn, has no business going far enough offshore that they actually need an SSB. Again, simply my opinion. Worth every bit as much, or every bit as little, as anyone else's opinion.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:57   #11
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Uh Oh! Looks like there might be at least two in this crowd. Probably more.

All those specially cut radials bundled together basically detune one another such that their individual length is not important in HF bands. I think what is happening is that this expensive bundle of wires is acting like little more than a 10 foot long copper pipe (or ribbon of copper) that is capacitively coupling the ground to sea water, lifelines, fuel tanks, whatever. Sure, it works. But is it working better than a 3" wide ribbon of copper strung along the same path? I doubt it.

I would love to attach an antenna analyzer to an antenna system (without an antenna tuner) that uses this device, and compare it to the same system with a simple 3" ground foil taking the same path. Or even 10 feet of 12 ga copper wire, though a bundle of wires has some advantage over a single wire. I think the SWR plot from 1.8 mHz to 30 mHz would be essentially the same, protests of the seller notwithstanding.

Keep in mind that a wide range automatic antenna tuner like the Icom AT-140 can usually present a low SWR match to the transmitter when attached to an antenna system with no counterpoise. That doesn't mean that the radiation efficiency of the system is good. Under the right conditions you can make contact around the world with 5 watts into a decent antenna system. You can do the same thing with 150 watts going into an antenna that is effectively radiating only 5 watts. It might work, but is it working as well as it could be? As an extreme example, I can attach a 50 ohm resistor to my transmitter output and have a 1.2:1 or better SWR from 1 to 30 mHz. But I'm not actually radiating much at all.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:27   #12
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FWIW a couple of runs of copper strap will cost you more than $150, just btdt.
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Old 02-01-2010, 13:15   #13
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FWIW a couple of runs of copper strap will cost you more than $150, just btdt.
Except I would compare this device to a 10 foot run of copper strap.
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Old 03-01-2010, 17:24   #14
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I decided to stick my two cents worth in here. I have been using a KISS-SSB radial system along with my Icom-710 and an insulated back-stay. It works, and works very well. It is that simple, and considering the time and cost of materials and a haul-out to put a stupid bronze ground plate on, it seems a no-brainer for me. I have made contacts thousands of miles away, and have never had any complaints from my listners. It is worth every penny! Thirty minutes, done deal, no worries. It was when I read the comaprison of it to a "pet-rock" that I felt someone should speak up, it is a great product. Mick, New Zealand
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:48   #15
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Originally Posted by fijisails
...considering the time and cost of materials and a haul-out to put a stupid bronze ground plate on...
And why would you bother doing that? If you have a bronze through-hull, that will work nearly as well as one of those ground plates (some believe better). What's more, you could just cut some wires and string them around inside the boat, without any need for a haul-out or the ground plate. That's really the point. That's really all this bundle of wires is.

If you feel the need for a ground plane that connects directly to the water (such as a bronze plate) then the KISS bundle of wires does NOT cut it! On the other hand, a $20 piece of copper strap to the nearest bronze through-hull WOULD cut it, would almost certainly work at least as well as the KISS, and would probably work better.
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