Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by markpierce

How prominent/strong is your radar signature? How big is your "blob" on others radar?

Don't know.. how big a 'Ping' does 27000lbs of steel boat give off..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not the same channel marker. Why would we sail towards the rocks during a gale? The marker pictured in the radar screen on the video is the one below the goto point in the screenshot on this post.

Another question which I've asked you before Mr. Boatman: Why do you feel compelled to make such ridiculous comments following my posts? As I recall... you weren't there on our boat that day, I don't recall seeing you in the video.

Maybe because I sail inside that buoy.. guess its all down to personal experiences Mr Kenomac.. as for ridiculous statements I think the comment about not being on your boat is one.
Its often commented on how close I sail to capes.. some do.. others don't.
Stop judging others by your limitations..

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Maybe because I sail inside that buoy.. guess its all down to personal experiences Mr Kenomac.. as for ridiculous statements I think the comment about not being on your boat is one.
Its often commented on how close I sail to capes.. some do.. others don't.
Stop judging others by your limitations..

Mr. boatman,

Then please explain why in the world if you were hugging the coastline south of Bonifacio (1/2 mile off the coast) and trying to get to the goto indicated on the screenshot, why you would be sailing anywhere near the channel marker located on the outcropping of land (Lavezzi) during a gale with 40-49 knot continuous wind, poor visibility and without radar?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Mr. boatman,

Then please explain why in the world if you were hugging the coastline south of Bonifacio (1/2 mile off the coast) and trying to get to the goto indicated on the screenshot, why you would be sailing anywhere near the channel marker located on the outcropping of land (Lavezzi) during a gale with 40-49 knot continuous wind, poor visibility and without radar?

Likely because its a N'ly gale and if I were daft enough to be out there I'd want to be as close to Lavezzi as possible to lessen the sea's then head out and run across the top of the Islands, around 6 miles.. and then SE rather than head into them..
Tho' if you remember the first time you posted this video a while back.. I said I'd not take a boat out of Bonifaccio in those conditions in the first place.
Notice you moved your go to a few miles to the SE.. lol

[four winds]

Ken, what I thought odd about the video was your comment about likely hitting the marker if your better half had not spotted it on the radar. (good crew skills there!) I'll not qoute the exact words but that was what I took you to be saying. (In support of having radar)

But surely, even given that it was 500+ meters away, you knew it was out there. And probably it's general bearing off your bow.

At that distance it wouldn't be prominent in clear weather yet, but the binocs would be used I'm sure in clear weather. Wouldn't you be anticipating spotting it momentarily as the distance closed. And knowing where it should present itself. Your too good a sailor not to be aware.

I would suggest in the conditions seen in the video you would have spotted it off to port or starboard at some safe distance. And it wouldn't have been dead ahead anyway, because you wouldn't have steered at it based info available from the plotter and your situational awareness.

Anyway, doubt you would have hit it.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by four winds

Ken, what I thought odd about the video was your comment about likely hitting the marker if your better half had not spotted it on the radar. (good crew skills there!) I'll not qoute the exact words but that was what I took you to be saying. (In support of having radar)

But surely, even given that it was 500+ meters away, you knew it was out there. And probably it's general bearing off your bow.

At that distance it wouldn't be prominent in clear weather yet, but the binocs would be used I'm sure in clear weather. Wouldn't you be anticipating spotting it momentarily as the distance closed. And knowing where it should present itself. Your too good a sailor not to be aware.

I would suggest in the conditions seen in the video you would have spotted it off to port or starboard at some safe distance. And it wouldn't have been dead ahead anyway, because you wouldn't have steered at it based info available from the plotter and your situational awareness.

Anyway, doubt you would have hit it.

But the point is, we were able to see it on radar much earlier than with our eyes alone, and then able to take evasive action much sooner. In that kind of weather, a large marker buoy can't be seen as easily.

[Snowpetrel]

^^ yes thats the way to use radar, and those applications it shines. Parallel Indexes are great on a properly stabilised display, unfortunately most low end rec gear doesn't really stabilize well in any sort of seaway. It will be interesting to see how satcompasses in time change this.

For me I prefer to avoid blind pilotages. Things are very different as vessels get bigger, and commercial realities intrude. for smaller cruising boats they can be useful at times, but are certainly not essential equipment for voyaging. What is more important by far is good seamanship.

If you do fit radar to learn to use it safely really needs a fair bit of experiance with the set, and some study of the proper use. There are traps for the unwary.

[JPA Cate]

Boatman61,

Our radar, mounted above the first spreaders, would probably show your boat before we could eyeball your masthead light in the dark. Steelies are good solid radar targets, and your boat does not have a tall mast, so a big "ping".

Ann

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Likely because its a N'ly gale and if I were daft enough to be out there I'd want to be as close to Lavezzi as possible to lessen the sea's then head out and run across the top of the Islands, around 6 miles.. and then SE rather than head into them..
Tho' if you remember the first time you posted this video a while back.. I said I'd not take a boat out of Bonifaccio in those conditions in the first place.
Notice you moved your go to a few miles to the SE.. lol

And your's would be a dumb idea, IMHO, that would have landed you on the rocks someplace on Santa Maria.

You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there. And sure, it's always easy to Monday morning quarterback and second guess a situation months later on front and of your computer screen.

We were never in Bonifacio prior to the storm, we were sailing past it on our way down from Calvi into what we thought would be 30-40knot winds on our way to Olbia (not the 40-49knots encountered). 30-40 knot winds are well within our comfort zone on our boat. FYI, it was a Northeasterly gale and we were obviously sailing on a broad reach and not "headed into them" as you suggest. Watch the video next time, and read what I wrote. We followed a course 1/2 mile off the coast of Corsica down past Bonifacio then cut south just west of the marker buoy. We didn't follow the straight line on the goto... I just used that to show you the marker buoy and intended destination. We try to sail as far off a leeward shore as possible in those conditions.

Get your facts straight and please stop making stuff up. Again.

[four winds]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

But the point is, we were able to see it on radar much earlier than with our eyes alone, and then able to take evasive action much sooner. In that kind of weather, a large marker buoy can't be seen as easily.

Well then I'm a little surprised evasive action was needed. Possibly standing off a bit more based on position indicated on the plotter may have been advised on those conditions.

Of course I'm not a real cruiser by CF standards so my opinion means nothing.

I don't sail in those conditions, don't have to. Got caught offshore with unforcast pop ups more than once but no big deal.

No radar, don't need it for my travels.

[Pelagic]

For some reason Kenomac your YouTube video comes up "not available".... Maybe a Philippines thing...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

^^ yes thats the way to use radar, and those applications it shines. Parallel Indexes are great on a properly stabilised display, unfortunately most low end rec gear doesn't really stabilize well in any sort of seaway. It will be interesting to see how satcompasses in time change this.

For me I prefer to avoid blind pilotages. Things are very different as vessels get bigger, and commercial realities intrude. for smaller cruising boats they can be useful at times, but are certainly not essential equipment for voyaging. What is more important by far is good seamanship.

If you do fit radar to learn to use it safely really needs a fair bit of experiance with the set, and some study of the proper use. There are traps for the unwary.

Originally Posted by four winds

Well then I'm a little surprised evasive action was needed. Possibly standing off a bit more based on position indicated on the plotter may have been advised on those conditions.

Of course I'm not a real cruiser by CF standards so my opinion means nothing.

I don't sail in those conditions, don't have to. Got caught offshore with unforcast pop ups more than once but no big deal.

No radar, don't need it for my travels.

Four winds,

Listen and learn from Snowpetrel. The guy has lots of foul weather experience sailing Antarctica and places that very few of the "fair weather" folks on CF would dare venture to go.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

For some reason Kenomac your YouTube video comes up "not available".... Maybe a Philippines thing...

Sorry, it's the music I used. Copyright won't allow it to be played in some countries.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

For some reason Kenomac your YouTube video comes up "not available".... Maybe a Philippines thing...

Here's the shortened version without the music. It shows how we're trying to figure out what the large diagonal object on the radar is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKhn...ature=youtu.be

[four winds]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Four winds,

Listen and learn from Snowpetrel. The guy has lots of foul weather experience sailing Antarctica and places that very few of the "fair weather" folks on CF would dare venture to go.

Yes, certainly. I enjoy read in snowpetral's posts. Very good information.

But being one of those fair weather folks with no daring-do to display, while playing coastal loligager, maybe my need for radar isn't on the same level as real seamen such as yourself.

Maybe one day I'll need radar, but I doubt it.


Edit, ....... below is the important part of Snowpetral's post as it pertains to my experience onboard.

"Things are very different as vessels get bigger, and commercial realities intrude. for smaller cruising boats they can be useful at times, but are certainly not essential equipment for voyaging. What is more important by far is good seamanship."