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Old 16-10-2016, 11:40   #196
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Let me try and simplify it for you..
On one crossing to Cherbourg I'd passed the W bound lane and Separation Zone and was halfway across the E bound when a boat that had passed me half hour earlier 'lost it' because he thought he was going to rammed by a ship around a mile away and turned to stbd and put his ship in irons.. presumably to let the ship pass.. what he in fact did was force an emergency turn by the ship as by stopping/altering course he'd mucked up the ships avoidance tactic.. which was based on the 40 odd ftrs speed and course for his course adjustment which he'd made maybe upto 10 miles earlier.. which then resulted in the trail of ships behind/beside him getting in a flap..
It can get very expensive if you upset the Traffic Controllers overmuch.. hefty fines.
PS; 22ftr no AIS, Radar, GPS/CP.. just charts and compass
There's no separation zone in front of Cherbourg . . .


But your point is a good one. It's very dangerous to "eyeball" crossings with ships, and very dangerous to maneuver spontaneously. It's really important to know how you're crossing, carry on when you need to, turn the right way. You can't do it unless you are able to determine a collision course and distinguish it from a safe pass, and the Mark 1 eyeball is useless for this. AIS makes it easy; a hand bearing compass also works.
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:07   #197
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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There's no separation zone in front of Cherbourg . . .


But your point is a good one. It's very dangerous to "eyeball" crossings with ships, and very dangerous to maneuver spontaneously. It's really important to know how you're crossing, carry on when you need to, turn the right way. You can't do it unless you are able to determine a collision course and distinguish it from a safe pass, and the Mark 1 eyeball is useless for this. AIS makes it easy; a hand bearing compass also works.
Dockhead.. the Separation Zone I was referring to is the 'Central Reservation' that separates E and W bound traffic.. around 10miles wide..
Mk1 eyeball is essential with hand bearing compass..
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:22   #198
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Dockhead.. the Separation Zone I was referring to is the 'Central Reservation' that separates E and W bound traffic.. around 10miles wide..
Mk1 eyeball is essential with hand bearing compass..
I know exactly what you're talking about

There is no TSS there, no central reservation. The TSS starts much further up the Channel.

But even if they are not official, there are fairly well defined lanes. So I know what you're talking about; it's not important. The traffic is incredibly intense there, and crossing the lanes has been compared to some like being a squirrel running across a busy motorway . . . . You have to know what you're doing
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:28   #199
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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I'll save you the trouble..
Rules for Porcupines..
Rule 10 (c) - “ A vessel shall so far as practicable avoid crossing the traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of the traffic flow”. This reduces confusion and enables the vessel to cross as quickly as possible.
Of course we have to cross traffic lanes at right angles if possible, but the rules I quoted for you clearly state that before proceeding across the highway, the porcupine must open both eyes as wide as possible. Those two eyed porcupines that "assess" that they can safely choose to cross the highway with one eye closed are both violating the rules and forcing others to do a higher share of collision avoidance and eventually end up as road pizza. Also, the vast majority of the time spent boating in restricted visibility is not spent in the special case of crossing traffic lanes, but rather in areas where random crossing or overtaking situations occur. The bottom line is that in ALL these situations, the rules require you to use radar if it's available. You're not allowed to "assess" that because you are following one rule by crossing a traffic lane at right angles, you can ignore another rule by not using your available radar.
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:29   #200
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Especially when sailing 21 and 22ftrs with small o/b's in Springs headed for Cherbourg or Alderney where you get swept E and W for 6hrs.. talk about a big S course..
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:32   #201
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Especially when sailing 21 and 22ftrs with small o/b's in Springs headed for Cherbourg or Alderney where you get swept E and W for 6hrs.. talk about a big S course..
This is some kind of sailing! Those who haven't done it, don't really understand
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:33   #202
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Of course we have to cross traffic lanes at right angles if possible, but the rules I quoted for you clearly state that before proceeding across the highway, the porcupine must open both eyes as wide as possible. Those two eyed porcupines that "assess" that they can safely choose to cross the highway with one eye closed are both violating the rules and forcing others to do a higher share of collision avoidance and eventually end up as road pizza. Also, the vast majority of the time spent boating in restricted visibility is not spent in the special case of crossing traffic lanes, but rather in areas where random crossing or overtaking situations occur. The bottom line is that in ALL these situations, the rules require you to use radar if it's available. You're not allowed to "assess" that because you are following one rule by crossing a traffic lane at right angles, you can ignore another rule by not using your available radar.
Of course I can.. and do.. but only when I have radar..
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:40   #203
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Dockhead.. the Separation Zone I was referring to is the 'Central Reservation' that separates E and W bound traffic.. around 10miles wide..
Mk1 eyeball is essential with hand bearing compass..
This thread is about tools/techniques to avoid collisions in "restricted visibility," not the special case of crossing traffic lanes in visual conditions, so in the conditions we are discussing and your Mk 1 eyeball sees the conflict, collision may be unavoidable. That's why the rules require you to have your radar turned on if it's available.
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Old 16-10-2016, 12:54   #204
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

"the DuFour 45 I delivered had radar and the young owner liked used it when he was on watch.. however when he went to get his head down I'd ask him to switch it off."


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Of course I can.. and do.. but only when I have radar..
Hallelujah, in just over 2 pages of a CF thread you've been healed(!) from allowing your "aversion to screens" from preventing you from following the rules and using radar when it's required! Will miracles never cease!
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Old 16-10-2016, 16:35   #205
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
"the DuFour 45 I delivered had radar and the young owner liked used it when he was on watch.. however when he went to get his head down I'd ask him to switch it off."




Hallelujah, in just over 2 pages of a CF thread you've been healed(!) from allowing your "aversion to screens" from preventing you from following the rules and using radar when it's required! Will miracles never cease!
A man who see's what he wants to see.. like an Oasis in the desert..
I was saying I can and do.. ignore the rules about using radar.. but Only when I have it on a boat..
As to the reference to steady course and speed across shipping lanes.. that was in reference to peasouper fog when crossing them..
Also.. seeing as I, and others have been copping stick ever since I joined CF for being singlehanders on our own boats.. dya honestly me think not using a radar is any bigger a sin.. I'm triple dammed already..
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Old 16-10-2016, 16:57   #206
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

Also.. seeing as I, and others have been copping stick ever since I joined CF for being singlehanders on our own boats.. dya honestly me think not using a radar is any bigger a sin.. I'm triple dammed already..
Quadrupled....

(Jes sayin')
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Old 16-10-2016, 17:24   #207
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Jeez Boatie... Never thought of you as a nautical sinner...

....more like this really talented and experienced Don Quixote mariner who tips at the even keel of seamanship....just because he can! :thumbup:

Nothing wrong with that and it keeps me entertained and coming back for more...

If you are ever in the Philippines... First night out is on me.
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Old 16-10-2016, 17:36   #208
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Jeez Boatie... Never thought of you as a nautical sinner...

....more like this really talented and experienced Don Quixote mariner who tips at the even keel of seamanship....just because he can! :thumbup:

Nothing wrong with that and it keeps me entertained and coming back for more...

If you are ever in the Philippines... First night out is on me.
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Old 16-10-2016, 18:01   #209
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Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Honestly, it sounds like radar is an excuse for lazy sailors.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Then again so are GPS, AIS, speedometers, depth-sounders and roller furlers.
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Old 16-10-2016, 18:25   #210
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

I think a lazy sailor is one who doesn't try to properly learn how to use all available nav-aids onboard in order to have more than one form of reference as to their situation.

It is always easy to blame the tools, when you don't make the effort to know how to use them.
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