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Old 16-10-2016, 08:40   #181
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
...follow the Rules and things work.

5. Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

Yup..

7. Risk of collision
Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects. (e.g. ARPA, AIS).

Depends on the skippers assessment of risk of collision.. some put it as 12 miles away yet I seen ships ram each other in the Dover Straits while arguing on the VHF about which school they went to.. and these are Professional captains.
I prefer the compass bearing method and if thick fog maintain course at a constant speed and bearing across highways.. not twitching and dodging about every time a fog horn sounds..


2. Responsibility

Always taken seriously.. in a cavalier kinda way..

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case

'Nuff said.
Pedantic's don't stop collisions.
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Old 16-10-2016, 08:43   #182
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

On the by, some of the learned folks hear forget they are speaking to everyone and engage in the conversation with another of thier peers. Hence the undefined acronyms. (Google them)

They should follow the convention used in a classroom. Where the first instance of presenting an as yet unused acronym it should be followed by its long form in parentheses.

A pet peeve of mine as a former teacher in uni.
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Old 16-10-2016, 08:46   #183
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Originally Posted by Nammy View Post
So, I'm the OP. It sounds like radar makes you bitchy. I was hoping to learn a thing or two about radar but, I got a conversation of ppl that love to throw out a bunch of acronyms and pretend their info is best. Thanks to the other three ppl that have an actual answers. I guess I'll try another site.

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Precisely the thing we are trying to avoid here... Hopefully you can see that the shots across the bow are NOT directed towards your ship... Members get passionate about their own tried and true practices, as everybody who is responding with opinions is here and not a statistic...

Two different camps, with lots of positions between.... Prudent seamanship occurs both with and without radar...
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Old 16-10-2016, 08:53   #184
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Happy, ... hear, hear.! lol.

Thank you for that, especially the last sentence.

Some just can't understand why everyone wouldn't make the same choices as them. And choose to consider the other an idiot, since after all they are genius.
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:08   #185
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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When is radar not only necessary but crucial to have? Just watch this video and look closely at 1:05 when my wife locates a huge channel marker at a time with poor visibility that's only 500 meters away. I doubt we would have avoided hitting it without the radar. It also helps to know how to use it and practice frequently. You can't count on AIS, more than half the boats don't have it, and besides that... our new AIS unit broke down for over half the season.

Hey Ken. Good video. Don't know about your taste in music though. What an irritating noise. Thankfully I have a volume control on my computer
Subscribed and looking forward to more videos, and hopefully you go the route of making them a bit instructional by narrating them.
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:13   #186
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Originally Posted by Nammy View Post
Maybe. Maybe, you're the *******, Belize. I've sailed for some time and, I'm still alive with no radar. So are many ppl on this thread. After reading all the comments from the boys with little dicks, telling All who will listen how big their sick is, I'll stick with the sailors that have just a little balls and, don't need something to hold their hand when they sail.

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Apparently Markj was right with his early post and my sincere efforts to inform were completely wasted on you.

Please..... "Have a Nice Day!"
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:14   #187
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Precisely the thing we are trying to avoid here... Hopefully you can see that the shots across the bow are NOT directed towards your ship... Members get passionate about their own tried and true practices, as everybody who is responding with opinions is here and not a statistic...

Two different camps, with lots of positions between.... Prudent seamanship occurs both with and without radar...
Exactly. And the resultant discussions are full of valuable information, and lots of different points of view. What is the right answer, everyone will have to decide for himself. There are lots and lots of choices presented.

Another thing I would like to say -- just because you start a thread, doesn't mean you own it. You stimulate discussion with the topic, which may have nothing to do with you, and the thread takes on a life of its own. That is natural, and as it should be. Following those discussions will provide another wealth of information, on the topic stated.
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:16   #188
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Looks like I'm the idiot. Doh!

My apologies NaMMy. I just noticed it's not Nanny. Small phone and old eyes. Sorry.
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:28   #189
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Exactly Dock head and I learn a lot more here than I ever imagined by researching the ideas put forth by others.

Not sure if "Nanny' s" namesake reflects his state of mind, or a simple desire to butt heads, but neither attitude has contributed to this interesting discussion.
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Old 16-10-2016, 09:40   #190
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm here for the sailing.
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Old 16-10-2016, 10:08   #191
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

7. Risk of collision
Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects. (e.g. ARPA, AIS).

"Depends on the skippers assessment of risk of collision.. some put it as 12 miles away yet I seen ships ram each other in the Dover Straits while arguing on the VHF about which school they went to.. and these are Professional captains.
I prefer the compass bearing method and if thick fog maintain course at a constant speed and bearing across highways.. not twitching and dodging about every time a fog horn sounds.."

I've seen a few porcupines who took that same approach to crossing highways and they're never a pretty sight. Then there are those LIVE porcupines who chose to open their eyes and take a look around at what might be out there....

The point you seem to be missing is that the above rule (which you recently said you advocate following) says that you "must" use all available means to determine the risk of a collision including the use of radar (if available)...." so you "must" use radar (among other available aids to include your ears, eyes, AIS, etc.). Once you have used all available aids (including radar if available) to determine what the risk is, THEN, once the skipper has gathered all info available to him, he is to make an assessment about what the best course of action might be. The rules don't allow skippers to "assess" that they don't need to gather all available information about the risk of collision and that is what you are doing when you turn off a working radar in restricted visibility.

Nobody except you has said anything about "twitching and dodging."
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Old 16-10-2016, 10:30   #192
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
7. Risk of collision
Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects. (e.g. ARPA, AIS).

"Depends on the skippers assessment of risk of collision.. some put it as 12 miles away yet I seen ships ram each other in the Dover Straits while arguing on the VHF about which school they went to.. and these are Professional captains.
I prefer the compass bearing method and if thick fog maintain course at a constant speed and bearing across highways.. not twitching and dodging about every time a fog horn sounds.."

I've seen a few porcupines who took that same approach to crossing highways and they're never a pretty sight. Then there are those LIVE porcupines who chose to open their eyes and take a look around at what might be out there....

For someone who spouts the Rules.. check the procedure for small yachts crossing shipping lanes.. like the English Channel or similar.. its very easy to be a 'Cherry Picker'.. go out and play with the big boys sometime..

The point you seem to be missing is that the above rule (which you recently said you advocate following) says that you "must" use all available means to determine the risk of a collision including the use of radar (if available)...." so you "must" use radar (among other available aids to include your ears, eyes, AIS, etc.). Once you have used all available aids (including radar if available) to determine what the risk is, THEN, once the skipper has gathered all info available to him, he is to make an assessment about what the best course of action might be. The rules don't allow skippers to "assess" that they don't need to gather all available information about the risk of collision and that is what you are doing when you turn off a working radar in restricted visibility.

Okay so I'm a bad boy.. slap my wrist why don't you..

Nobody except you has said anything about "twitching and dodging."
Twitching and dodging is what often happens with small sailboats in busy waters.. they think the passing points to close or they may collide so they alter course when they don't have to..
Sorry to bring it up.. you go your way.. I'll go mine and never the twain shall meet.. else it'll be a 50/50 outcome..
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Old 16-10-2016, 10:42   #193
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

I'll save you the trouble..
Rules for Porcupines..
Rule 10 (c) - A vessel shall so far as practicable avoid crossing the traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of the traffic flow. This reduces confusion and enables the vessel to cross as quickly as possible.
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Old 16-10-2016, 11:01   #194
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Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

I can concur with Boatie on this one. I got yelled at by authority for zig zagging in the crossing...
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Old 16-10-2016, 11:10   #195
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pirate Re: Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

Let me try and simplify it for you..
On one crossing to Cherbourg I'd passed the W bound lane and Separation Zone and was halfway across the E bound when a boat that had passed me half hour earlier 'lost it' because he thought he was going to rammed by a ship around a mile away and turned to stbd and put his ship in irons.. presumably to let the ship pass.. what he in fact did was force an emergency turn by the ship as by stopping/altering course he'd mucked up the ships avoidance tactic.. which was based on the 40 odd ftrs speed and course for his course adjustment which he'd made maybe upto 10 miles earlier.. which then resulted in the trail of ships behind/beside him getting in a flap..
It can get very expensive if you upset the Traffic Controllers overmuch.. hefty fines.
PS; 22ftr no AIS, Radar, GPS/CP.. just charts and compass
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