Is an SSB/pactor modem worth it?

[socaldmax]

FWIW, I think there is a lot of great info on the cruising nets, I listen to them from my house in San Diego, 25 mi from the coast. I have a Tecsun PL-880 (best current production portable SW Rcvr under $160 IMHO) and 2 Eton E1s (arguably the best portables ever made) and they both pick up the SSB maritime nets just fine. As long as you're just listening, these receivers work fine for $200 or less.

If you want to participate, then by all means, buy a marine grade radio. I also have an Icom 7200 (that is not any more sensitive than the other 2 radios despite the much better antenna on it) but I will not be using it on marine channels, only on ham bands after getting my ticket. If it does go on the boat with me, it will be the backup receiver for weatherfax, etc. The Eton E1 and PL-800 with be 2 more backups, they've already done an excellent job of receiving NOAA weatherfaxes from Pt Reyes and Honolulu, readable ones from NOLA, kinda shaky ones from Kodiak and when the conditions are right, surprisingly good ones from NZ.

I am in a really crappy reception area, lots of noise sources and in a valley. Your reception will be much better on a boat, even if your antenna isn't perfect.

[hellosailor]

FWIW, beware of DeLorme. Their land nav/mapping products used to have intentional errors, like non-existent streets, "so that we can identify copyright infringement".


Well, real cartographers and typesetters can accomplish that without inviting people to drive over cliffs and through sand dunes.


Leaves you to wonder, what other clever ideas or shortcuts they may be taking.

[AllanR]

If you plan to be anywhere beyond coastal VHF communication networks, you need a marine HF/SSB with DSC to maintain direct contact with shore based MRCCs and with any other yachts, commercial vessels etc that are nearby but over the horizon.

This marine radio based comms system - for advise, support, spare parts, some fuel or a tow - works despite variations in shore emergency phone contacts, and the need to know who is just over the horizon and their satphone or cellphone number. It is optomised for the operational realities of cruisers or commercial vessels when beyond coastal VHF services (with DSC) in order to create a mutual support network to assist all mariners, for GENERAL day-to-day activities and requests, and for DISTRESS situations.

The broadcast feature of radio means one DSC call alert and one voice transmission of your request or problem can reach all vessels with similar radios in range, immediately and simultaneously. Without thousands of satphone calls or sms messages. And without needing to know if those satphones or cellphones are nearby and the numbers. And those vessels contacted via radio have possibly thousands of mariners, some with the answers, advice or assistance you need.

When operating within the protective umbrella of coastal VHF networks (eg around coastal UK, Europe and parts of North America) VHF marine radios with DSC will do the job. When operating beyond coastal VHF networks but still within range of immediate response shore based S&R services, a satphone, with the number of your local Coast Guard station or maritime emergency co-ordiantion centre could be sufficient. (This is the UK/Europe solution that can mostly work given their relatively small S&R responsibility areas.)

Once beyond the range of shore-based S&R services, you need to communicate with other nearby mariners, in yachts, fishing boats, commercial vessels etc. You won't know their satphone numbers either, or which are nearby. But the broadcast feature of radio and the All-Call nature of DSC DISTRESS calls is desigend to address that uncertainty; all DSC capable radios which your DSC DISTRESS call reaches will be triggered into an alarm state - to attract the crew's attention - and those hundreds or thousands of capable, resourceful mariners with spare parts, a line for a tow etc will be able to judge if they can assist you, and reply.

This works extremely well for commercail vessels because in many countries (for small commercial vesels under 300 tonnes) and around the world (for large commercail vessels over 300 tonnes) it is compulsory for them to carry a DSC capable HF/SSB radio and maintain it in 24/7 standby watch (with a comfortably muted speaker), listening for DSC calls. Yacht owners who fit a similar radio can immediately link into this existing, compulsory, existing, effective, network. Easy.

Yacht owners who consider the welfare of other mariners - including the family on the yacht they spent time with in the last anchorage - take the effort to do something similar. They fit a marine DSC capable HF/SSB radio and maintain it in 24/7 standby, in the open ocean, when coastal cruising beyond shore VHF networks, and in their peaceful anchorage. This radio makes no noise, unless it recives an alarm. It does not require any effort on the part of the yacht crew to maintain a watch, the smart technology in the radio does it for you; making a noise only when it receives a call.

Calls can be INDIVIDUAL - to your yacht specific MMSI number, like a phone number - or GROUP calls to a group of yachts in a rally or race or cruise-in-company group, or your yacht club members, or DISTRESS calls - to every similar radio. It's a really smart and versatile system that is designed by smart mariners to work effectively for all mariners, in big or small vessels. It creates an immediate response mutual support network in an environment beyond emergency numbers and regular emergency services.

But it only works because everyone takes the effort to contribute. 1500 people on the Titanic learnt the hard way what happens when the radio is turned off; they died. The nearby and visible SS Californian radio operator turned off his radio and went to bed, just ten minutes before the RMS Titanic struck the iceberg. By the time he got up and switched on the radio in the morning, it was all over, the Titaninc was gone and 1500 people were already dead.

When the Chiki Rafiki inverted last year and four crew were tossed into the Atlantic, because it's keel fell off, they Coast Guard tracked their PLB for a day or two. But neither the Coast Guard (using DSC and open emergency frequency calling) nor the HAM networks, could find a nearby yacht or other vessel to go to the PLB location before the battery failed. Presumably because all the yachts and other small craft in the vicinity had their radios turned off.

And also because those nearby with only a satphone could not be called because how is it possible to know which of them is nearby and their satphone number; call every satphone number in the world? The satphone seems to be a quick fix, cheap option for long distance yachts comms. But it really is not. It lacks the broadcast, silent watch, simultaneous information distribution and free-to-talk characteristics of modern marine radio with DSC. As a number of contributors have stated, they each do useful but very different tasks.

When you reach the next port or anchorage, how will you feel when you read that 200 people on a cruise ship just died as you sailed past nearby, but over the horizon. Or the EPIRB/PLBs from the yacht with the family of two adults and three children you spent a fun time with in the last anchorage ran out of battery power because the closest yachts with their radio switched on could not get there fast enough. But you were close, but without the right radio (marine, DSC capable) or you had the right radio but it was switched off; because you decided it was more important to run the cabin lights than the radio.

And what would you wish for if you and your crew/family were in the water after your keel fell off. There are a lot of people sailing in yachts constructed like Chiki Rafiki. You took the right self-preservation steps by having everyone kitted with inflatable life-jackets, PLBs etc. Now that you are in the water all you need is your friends in the rally or another nearby yacht to have their radio on so the Coast Cuard or other MRCC can contact them and ask them to go to your precise EPIRB/PLB location and pick you out of the water. Either before you are all smashed onto the coastal cliffs, or before the EPIRB/PLB runs out of battery, or before your kids die of hypothermia, one after the other, youngest/smallest first.

The report of the Titanic sinking resulted in all passenger ships of the time being required to have their radio on and manned 24/7. The recent MAIB report into the loss of the four Chiki Rafiki crew highlighted that yacht crews need to be self-sufficient when operating away from coastal S&R facilities. A modern marine HF/SSB radio with DSC does not require a radio opertor, it does the work itself, silently - if switched on - and thereby helps create a self-support network of yacht crews that look after each other.

In answer to the question of is a SSB and Pactor controller needed. You definately need the radio to help you manage your yachting vacations and adventures, to keep in contact with cruising friends, other rally participants, etc, and to play your role in contributing to the emergency support networj for all other mariners. The addition of the Pactor controller is a relative minor expense for all the low-cost (especially compared to satphone data) benefits it brings via the not-for-profit SailMail service. For example, email, GRIB weather charts, position reporting, METAREA and coastal forecasts etc. And SailMail's software very seriously (eg: 3 x times) speeds up data transfers via a backup satphone.

We all need each other to have the correct marine HF/SSB radio with DSC, and run it 24/7 whenever active in our yachts, at sea or in a snug coastal anchorage.

If we all do it for each other, help, advice, waypoints, spare parts, a pump or tow is only a radio call or short distance away. And so is being picked from the water with your family, or friends.

[Harryws]

A wonderfully balance and informed piece. Well done.
Your observation of having a 24/7 SSB on all the time is just not practical on a small to medium size yacht. It just used too much power. While crossing oceans particularly the Pacific we ran a net twice a day to cover the 3,000 nm from start to finish. The time difference was an issue from east to west BUT if you needed help then someone in your area was listening at these appointed times and there is always the Marine Mobile net listening with powerful receivers.
I have seen many yacht over the last 10 years cruising around the world set off without a SSB the have to install one in some out of the way place as they see the benefits of safety and community.

[roverhi]

Ham or Marine SSB use very few amps in a listening mode. Only when transmitting do they eat electrons in a big way. Don't know whether the DSC function increases current usage, though. FWIW, only turn on the ham radio when I'm listening to WWV for a time hack or monitoring the MM nets. With DSC, might be a reason to keep the radio on. Personally can't see dropping the big bucks for an ICOM 802 just to get DSC and paying someone to do a proper installation so it would receive DSC transmissions. Ham radio does all but the DSC function for a 1/4 the cost.

[Jim Cate]

Query: is the use of a DSC 'all call" appropriate for soliciting spare parts or other such non-emergency uses? I was not aware of this usage, and suspect that it is not so intended. i thought it was intended for mayday type calls only, but don't know for sure.

A quick inspection of the 802's specs reveals that they draw 3 amps in rx mode (ie, awaiting a DSC call). That's 72 amp-hours a day, and that is far from trivial for us, and I imagine most other cruising yachts.

Jim

[AllanR]

I agree, the question of electricity can be a hurdle to maintaining the 24/7 DSC watch. But resourceful small yacht mariners can usually find a way if we want to. For me it's a matter of balancing priorities and demands. For example, to create the extra amp hours needed to maintain an ICOM M802(DSC) in 24/7 standby could be achieved by:

1. Replacing the incandescent globes in house and navigation lights with LEDs.

2. Adding a couple more solar panels.

3. Increasing the alternator output so when the engine is run each day - during coastal cruising, to get in and out of anchorages - or to cool the eutectic fridge/freezer, the same amount of diesel makes more electricity.

4. Turning off some of the heavy use electronic Nav display systems during long passages. Instead switch on a simple GPS twice a day to get the position, plot on the paper chart, then send position reports.

5. Adjusting the auto-pilot heading twice or three times a day after each plot on long passages. Use the relatively simple fluxgate compass rather than constantly updated GPS position/heading via the plotter/nav software/PC, to direct the auto-pilot. Switch on the detailed and quick response plotter/Nav software/PC again when getting close to things you can hit.

I'm sure others have more suggestions on how to economise on electricity use and increase electricity production sufficiently to allow radios to be on 24/7.

The Titanic took less than 2.5 hours to sink, and those in the water died either during or shortly after the ship disappeared from view. Yachts could be quiet close to a sinking vessel or to people in the water holding an EPIRB or PLB. But they need to be accessible to the MRCC asking for someone to go to pick people from the water. The HF /SSB marine radio with DSC is the most practical option.

I too have experienced people buying a HF/SSB radio after leaving home. In one case a cruising friend from the UK replaced his non DSC capable HF/SSB radio and bought himself a new ICOM M802(DSC) recently after a couple of years in SE Asia and a couple of years getting here from the UK, because he found he could not contact any MRCCs in this region by voice call. And also because when crossing the Pacific with a rally group that decided on daily skeds in order to preserve electricity, he had a rig problem that threatened to being down the mast mid ocean, with the likely outcome being to scuttle the boat, because a tow over such long distances would be impractical. He had to wait till the next daily HF/SSB sked before he could raise the alarm and get help from another nearby rally participant. If the weather had deteriorated or a squall appeared, that would have been the end of their yacht and the end of their circumnavigation plans.

It often seems that we can only comprehend the problem when we - or those close to us - have the opportunity to experience it, work through it, and be alive to tell the story. The risk of a serious incident seems very remote, and there are very few people around telling it like it was; because most are dead. It therefore could seem seems OK to use what could be the radio's electricity to run a stereo, play CD movies, power a plotter display or run the cabin lights. Saving some electricity for what might only happen once every 20 years can seem easy to compromise on.

The risk of an emergency event might be very low, but the consequences at sea are high, especially when we are beyond shore rescue service. We don't have gills or fins and water is not our natural environment; so a problem can become a disaster very quickly. If it is you and your family in the water, you'll wish the other guys have their radios on. Similarly, they will hope yours is on if they go into the water clutching the kids and a PLB.

In coastal waters the rescue co-ordination centres have their radios and phones on 24/7. They do not turn them off between skeds or because they think the risk of an incident is low. That's how they can be so successful; immediate contact and prompt response.


When distant from those always on services, our yachts and we become the substitute, so we need to either find a way to address the electricity requirement, or agree that some of are going to die because of a shortage of amps.


HAMs make great contributions to marine radio and mariners safety. The guy who developed the Pactor controller is a HAM, and so too are the people who developed SailMail. But a HAM radio is not an equivalent replacement for a modern marine radio with DSC. No one I know is willing to keep an open speaker HF/SSB radio on high volume so they can hear a distress call 24/7 from the cockpit, either when sailing or relaxing in a peaceful anchorage, or when sleeping. But the DSC radio can do all that, without noise.


An all-call Distress DSC alarm, followed by a Pan Pan voice request is quite OK. The idea of a Pan Pan call is to seek solutions for a problem that is not presently life threatening, but could become so if not addressed.


GROUP Calls are the convenient way to bring a rally or race fleet together for a sked, or to request waypoints, advise of shore facilities etc. An M802(DSC) can hold up to 100 different Group MMSI IDs. These could be all the yachts in a rally group, a race fleet, your yacht club, or even in a cruising area. When you get into a particular area, start scanning that area's GROUP MMSI ID for calls about requests for help, advice about obstructions in the water, broadcast warnings about missing navigation markers etc. It really is very versatile, facilitates lower stress cruising, and helps eliminate risk, if used to it's potential.


Setting up a DSC capable HF/SSB radio is not a technical mystery. There are people on this forum with excellent how to do it materials. And there are ways to simplify, and economise the install, such as the DISTRESS receive antenna does not need to be a full HF antenna; sharing with the AM/FM/CD stereo antenna or creating your own is quite feasible. Or get a book from HAM, ex US Navy Commander and committed cruiser Terry Sparks - www.made-simplefor-cruisers.com .


Sure there are a few hurdles to overcome, but helping to assist and protect each other seems worth the effort. As the MAIB report into the Chike Rafiki incident states, yachts in areas beyond 24/7 quick response coastal S&R facilities need to be more self-sufficient. Effective DSC based HF/SSB communication can conveniently link us together to create more self-sufficiency to help prevent problems becoming emergencies, and to help address emergencies.

[socaldmax]

For those who already have a marine HF/SSB/Pactor setup installed, I can definitely see the advantages of keeping it.

However, if one doesn't have one installed, it could cost $5,000 or more for an M802, AT140, Pactor 4 modem, antenna and counterpoise - with very little of that being for installation. After all of that, most of the examples you gave were of people who didn't have them turned on when someone needed help. Sure it's nice to be able to converse on the net while in a rally or group, but in an emergency, you might not be able to wait for the next scheduled net broadcast. As pointed out above, not everyone has the battery capacity to keep their HF radio on 24/7.

If you're in a rally or group, you could have a sat phone and have several numbers to other sat phone owners in the rally or group to contact. There's also a good chance if you're not all spread out too far that VHF will be able to reach someone in the group.

I'm not discouraging anyone from buying an HF/DSC marine radio, I'll probably buy one if it's not already installed on the boat I buy, I'm just pointing out a few things that got glossed over - like the expense. For some people, $5K sounds like 6 months of cruising budget, or even 10 months of cruising budget for those $500/mo. sailors. That's a lot of money for something that's not guaranteed to reach anyone close by. Sure, you might reach someone, but from my own experience, it may not be someone on the closest island or continent.

It's a great tool to have, in addition to other communications devices, just wish it wasn't so darn expensive.

[JPA Cate]

With the greatest respect, sir,

Do you not think the Chiki Rafiki turned turtle when the keel fell off? No opportunities for any kinds of radio tx once the mast is in the water.

I think it is really important to not confuse self sufficienty with radio communications.
IME, once the S**T has hit the fan, no one has time for radio comms.

Furthermore, I'm afraid it is a really bad idea to suggest to people that they should be doing radio TX when there is an urgent situation abovedecks.

Sorry this may sound fierce, but I really think this is important. And, FWIW, I do have a lot of sea miles in back of this opinion.

Ann

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi Canibul,

Is that in your garage in Jax? If so I might take you up on the offer. I know just enough electronics to be dangerous so might give it a go to repair the stuff.

If it's in a garage in the T&C it might be a while before I'm back in that neighborhood.

Skip

Skip,

I am presently packing up the house and shipping a bunch of stuff to the USA. The SSB and tuner are still sitting in the garage here. Do you think it's worth putting it in the crate and sending it to the US? I can easily send it anywhere in North America once I get it out of here and back to "civilization."

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Skip,

I am presently packing up the house and shipping a bunch of stuff to the USA. The SSB and tuner are still sitting in the garage here. Do you think it's worth putting it in the crate and sending it to the US? I can easily send it anywhere in North America once I get it out of here and back to "civilization."

You can crate it up and ship it to me!

[AllanR]

Hi Guys,

I might not have been clear. When Chiki Rafiki turned turtle and the crew went into the water, there was a PLB operating for a day or two. Presumably that was attached to one or more people.

The Coast Guard and the HAM community could not contact a nearby yacht to direct them to that PLB signal. Presumably because no one nearby bothered to have their HF/SSB radios switched on.

The Coast Guard and HAM network could not find anyone via satphone, because they did not know who was nearby or their satphone number to call. And probably those were also turned off.

A modern marine HF/SSB with DSC is the practical option that people can keep turned on in their yachts 24/7 because it is not noisy. And the radio listens for the DSC alerts which the Coast Guard - or other MRCC anywhere else in the world - can send when looking for someone nearby to go to assist another mariner in distress. There does not seem to be any other workable option; unless you can afford to buy and operate a high-powered INMARSAT system as found on big ships.

Beyond the irregular emergency situations, the same radio also provides a means for people to stay connected, to help each other with day to day information, waypoints, advice, warnings of obstructions etc. And all those calls to help each other or get advice cost nothing. And with a Pactor controller attached, it also gives low-cost access to emails, GRIB charts, METAREA forecasts, coastal forecasts, position reporting, etc.

Looking at USA websites I see the ICOM M802 (DSC) with tuner is less than US$2500. Allow a generous US$1000 for installation related expenses - backstay insulators, earth plate or KISS-SSB counterpoise, cabling etc. Bringing the total to about US$3500. Installation is not rocket science and within the capacity of resourceful yacht owners. The high-tech stuff is inside the box. Books and website guidance is available. Self installation is worth the effort, because it helps understanding and simplifies any problem solving. Nothing worse than mysteries behind a sealed bulkhead. I've watched people install an external earth plate with the boat still in the water.

If considering who's advice to take, remember that the satphone salesman will never need to stand up in a court to justify his sales pitch. But the yachting association, marine authority, MRCC etc which specify a DSC capable radio to be installed and maintained in a 24/7 watch status for events and general use, will.

A US$3500 radio is no more expensive than a new sail but will last years longer. And what price do you put on the lives of the other crews in your rally, race, delivery trip etc who could be riding on a bolt-on keel attached to an internal matrix of stiffeners which cannot be seen through the internal accommodation liner to observe delaminating stringers, a flexing hull, elongating keel bolt holes or the bilge, to know if there is a structural issue waiting to create an emergency.

The other yacht crews can all wear good life-jackets and PLBs etc to provide some backup protection in case the keel does fall off, but if nearby vessels cannot be directed to the PLB or EPIRB in the water, the effort is wasted.

If the MRCC cannot contact you to tell you where to find the PLB or EPIRB in the water your nearby friends holding it will not make it.

[sailorboy1]

When the boat goes down and you have to ditch, does SSB go into the raft with you?

Factor that in!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Canibul]

If your new crew member wakes up and sees you lying unconscious and unresponsive, can they grab that SSB microphone and do anything at all useful with it to save your life?

Great time to find and read a manual for a few hours, and frankly, I read the Icom 701 manual several times and still couldn't get satisfactory results from the SSB when it was working. It's old technology. Like wooden boats, it still works...but not the only nor the best game in town any more.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by AllanR

We all need each other to have the correct marine HF/SSB radio with DSC, and run it 24/7 whenever active in our yachts, at sea or in a snug coastal anchorage.

Allan,

You and John make very compelling arguments for a SSB with DSC capabilities and I am sold. However, as I type this, looking at my trusty old IC-M710 sitting at the nav station, I have a hard time justifying $1,800 to upgrade a working piece of equipment. On another thread I asked if anyone had any knowledge of DSC actually being used by a yacht in an emergency and got no replies. All of which is to say, for those of us with older, working SSB setups it is difficult to justify the expense of replacing them with a new 802 for it's DSC capabilities alone.