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Old 02-03-2016, 08:43   #106
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
It's OK, they're waterproof.
But she's not....

Photo taken from your company's website.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:10   #107
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Interesting, in the photos posted above, where is the "on-watch" person? At the helm.

In one photo, the helms person has all necessary instruments and controls to operate the boat safely, right where they are needed.

In the other photo, they don't. In fact, the primary navigation tool is in the hands of an off-watch person, who is not concentrating on the operation of the vessel at all. Does anyone else have a problem with that?

Clearly, helm pod instruments are not visible when "on-watch" is soaking in rays on the foredeck in benign conditions, Otto is on, crew is down below making lunch. They don't need to be.

For those normal circumstances, no matter where the primary navigation instruments are mounted, they would likely be in the wrong place.

If one is curious about the boat position, having last checked about an hour ago, they can easily check it on a mobile device, wherever they are. No problem. I'm all for that. Do it myself. All the time.

Now if they have a sudden MOB, where does one need to be to:

1. Disengage auto? Helm.
2. Turn the boat around? Helm.
3. Start engine? Helm
4. Engage transmission? Helm
5. Set reciprocal course? Helm
6. Steer to it? Helm

And in this boat (not necessarily all):

7. Trim, douse, or deploy the foresail? Helm.
8. Adjust the traveller? Helm.
9. Adjust the mainsheet? Helm.
10. Call a MayDay (if necessary, hope not)? Helm.

When in close quarters with other vessels, in marinas, canals, pulling up to a sandbar, anchor spot, etc., where does one need to be? Helm.

So having instruments and controls at the helm is a good thing, WHEN they are needed. When they are not needed, where they are on the boat is completely moot.

Obscured view? Wrong.

For the photo above, the helm's field of view to all waters surrounding the boat, is completely unobscured by the pod, when at the helm, in any position.

She is 4'10", and crouching a bit, to the low side, to look into the camera.

The pod height was selected to suit her.

I have been on all kinds of boats where a number of instruments are up under the dodger. On many, in bad weather, when one would want to be seated in the protection of the dodger, view is often obstructed when attempting to look through the dodger window. I have been on boats where the person on watch, has to leave the protection of the dodger, and look down the side of the cabin, so they can see past the instruments mounted on the cabin top under the dodger.

Talk about obscured view. Some of these owners request I remove the old instruments, fill all the holes, and mount their new instruments in a pod at the helm, where they can access them when needed, and they are out of the way on a long passage, when they aren't.

I can understand how one who advocates iPad use as the primary navigation tool could be reluctant to have it permanently mounted at the helm. (The reason I am involved in this thread.)

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Grab yourself together, you are loosing control

I was talking about cruising, not daysailing. Nobody cruising stays behind the wheel like in the picture. What you have there is typical Pacman sailing by the grace of GPS
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:45   #108
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Grab yourself together, you are loosing control

I was talking about cruising, not daysailing. Nobody cruising stays behind the wheel like in the picture. What you have there is typical Pacman sailing by the grace of GPS
This boat is day sailed, raced, and cruised. It is currently being prepared for cruising down the Erie Canal, to the Hudson, to the Chesapeake, and then in and out of the ICW down to Florida, Bahamas, Cuba, and then who knows where.

We find the current set up absolutely perfect for our purposes. It is the way most boats are set up. There is likely good reason. Rarely is the majority wrong.

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Old 02-03-2016, 10:48   #109
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
This boat is day sailed, raced, and cruised. It is currently being prepared for cruising down the Erie Canal, to the Hudson, to the Chesapeake, and then in and out of the ICW down to Florida, Bahamas, Cuba, and then who knows where.



We find the current set up absolutely perfect for our purposes. It is the way most boats are set up. There is likely good reason. Rarely is the majority wrong.



RamblinRod

I have never seen a cruiser setup like that. I hope you will use a tether back there as yo plan to stay there at all times.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:28   #110
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
This boat is day sailed, raced, and cruised.

We find the current set up absolutely perfect for our purposes. It is the way most boats are set up. There is likely good reason. Rarely is the majority wrong.

RamblinRod
We have never seen a cruising boat set up your way, everyone uses a mobile device. I'm sure there are exceptions, but everyone we know including delivery crews, uses a tablet. We cruise six months per year, and know and meet many cruisers.

Maybe your view is what it is because you've set up all the boats this way when selling your products... but it doesn't work out well in the cruising world. IMH (experienced) O.

Good luck with your cruising plans.

Ken

Picture of your "old school" set up... Not ours.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:54   #111
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Our cockpit 12 years ago:


The compass at each wheel has since gone because of displays that do a better job. Then we changed the instruments to be in the coaming where my wife has her elbow in the 1st picture:



Now we did away with the B&G Hydra2000 instruments but the new ones go in the same spot. There is no chartplotter in the cockpit, just in the pilothouse, which would be like under the dodger for smaller boats. I don't have a recent picture of that but here is the old gear:


The info available at the helm, by watching instruments further forward in the cockpit, is depth, stw, wind, hdg as well as course and distance to next waypoint, or the "highway" view for that. All on a multi-function repeater display, or the iPad of-course.
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:35   #112
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Jedi master,

I do have one suggestion for you involving a circumstance you may not have encountered. Like you, we very rarely look at the helm mounted compass, however.... I was presented with a situation during a storm last season.

It was late at night around 2am and we were sailing unknowingly into very foul weather. Jib and main sail out sailing in virtually no wind as it continued to die down. Then the wind suddenly changed 180 degrees, I furled in the sails quickly because the wind was now right on the nose. Within five minutes, I was hit by a massive wall of white spray, 45-50 knots of wind and choppy steep 6ft (2meter) waves which were opposing the 8ft gentle swells coming from the stern. With a reef and rocks only 500 meters off our port side, we suddenly were unable to make any headway into the wind, so.... with only my Chartplotter, and no visual... I turned the boat in what I thought was 180 degrees to head back to a safe anchorage, but... I forgot to first look down at my helm compass. The five minutes that followed were probably the scariest I can remember as I struggled without the compass to get the boat heading in the right direction.... Away from the reef and rocks. I couldn't see anything.

When things settled down and I was able to see my Chartplotter history... The boat had done a complete figure 8. A Chartplotter mounted at the helm (or iPad) would not have helped me..... I needed a compass, and I needed to have looked at it prior to making the turn.

A mistake, I hope to never again repeat. You may want to re-think the helm compass.
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:42   #113
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post

IMHO, anything in the cockpit, should be solid enough that one can fall on it, or rely on it as a handhold; anything less is unsafe. The first question I often get after suggesting binnacle mounted electronics is, "We will still be able to grab hold of the arch, right?" If there was something relatively weak mounted onto it, like a mobile device, and any of the mounts I've seen to date, the answer would have to be, "No". I've never had to say, "No" yet. In my opinion, the arch of the binnacle is an important safety handhold, and shouldn't be cluttered with flimsy stuff one may grab when reaching for it. When I mount an electronics pod on an arch, we either replace the arch, or extend it's height, so the handhold remains easily graspable.
I find this an extremely important issue that often, too often, gets overlooked.

In Maine Sail's excellent presentation in Reply #39, the gaggle of "crap" on that binnacle is simply astonishing. How much "stuff" does one really need? Vs. want?
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:53   #114
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Here's a bigger picture of our path. Without the compass heading... I was lost in the dark and spray. A helm Chartplotter was useless in this situation.
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:15   #115
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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We have never seen a cruising boat set up your way, everyone uses a mobile device. I'm sure there are exceptions, but everyone we know including delivery crews, uses a tablet. We cruise six months per year, and know and meet many cruisers.

Maybe your view is what it is because you've set up all the boats this way when selling your products... but it doesn't work out well in the cruising world. IMH (experienced) O.

Good luck with your cruising plans.

Ken

Picture of your "old school" set up... Not ours.
Interesting.

I go to boat shows every year.

I always check out the electronics on the show models to see "what's new".

In my profession, I see a lot of boats.

I can't recall seeing even one with an iPad bracket and no MFD at the helm.

I would have noticed it for sure, because the notion strikes me so.

Virtually all wheel steered boats I see with modern electronics, have MFDs at the helm.

For D/S/W/about 40% at the helm, 25% mounted in the companionway bulkhead, 25% above the companionway slider, 10% in cockpit coamings.

About the same for auto's, but more in the cockpit coamings.

For dual wheeled vessels, the most common solution is a swivelling pod at the back of the cockpit table, viewable from either helm station. The auto helm control is usually in the coaming on one side or the other.

The current norm for cruising boats is to have a common D/S/W display vs discrete displays, (which are still common for racing).

Many older boats have repeater chartplotters and some have repeater instrument displays at the nav station. (This is where I do believe a mobile device communicating via WIFI to the MFD, is very useful.

You may consider your set-up "new-school".

I consider it unusual and unsafe.

Interesting how a review of the boats for sale on Yacht World simply does not support the notion that iPads instead of MFDs at the helm are the norm.

Go figure.

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Old 02-03-2016, 13:16   #116
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Ken, instead of the old style helm compass, we now have a couple of sensors from Simrad and Maretron and view the compass on a display which is very visible from the helm; I call it equal to the old ones. For emergencies we have a portable compass which is safe at the navstation

p.s. I know those white-out squalls very well... we had a bad one just west of Martinique and also between St Vincent and Bequia. We could proceed on regular heading but instruments were all we could go on.
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:28   #117
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Low budget solution.

Fix two U shaped channels on deck or against bulkhead.
Slide tablet case in.

Photo of channels below. Better one under refit on my website.

Will add wireless charging directly underneath under deck & add receiver inside of waterproof case.

Anyone with experience on which wireless charger can bridge 8mm plywood?
Is there already something powerful enough on the market?



www.ladyrover.jimdo.com
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Old 02-03-2016, 14:08   #118
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Low budget solution.

Fix two U shaped channels on deck or against bulkhead.
Slide tablet case in.

Photo of channels below. Better one under refit on my website.

Will add wireless charging directly underneath under deck & add receiver inside of waterproof case.

Anyone with experience on which wireless charger can bridge 8mm plywood?
Is there already something powerful enough on the market?



Welcome to the Woods Mira 35 - Catamaran Lady Rovers Website!
Does the tablet in your installation lay flat on it's back on the coach roof?

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Old 02-03-2016, 14:21   #119
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Yes it does, but I will turn it and attach on the aft bulkhead for the coming season to reduce glare.
Still the Miix has a pretty bright screen and is reasonably well visible.

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Old 02-03-2016, 14:23   #120
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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I have never seen a cruiser setup like that. I hope you will use a tether back there as yo plan to stay there at all times.
Have you seen many cruising boats?

Many are set-up like this.

Yes, underway, we have harness/tethers on if:

a) We have a reef in.
b) The person in charge calls it.
c) Single-handing or only on-watch.
d) We have any concerns about crew performing an effective MOB recovery.

No, underway, in open water, with no other boats around, unless in rough conditions, we are rarely behind the helm, other than to take over control of the boat from the autohelm, or check the plotter (that is always running), if it is more convenient than using a mobile device with nav software. (Apps are usually all off, so the batteries don't die so rapidly.)
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