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Old 01-03-2016, 13:46   #91
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Juho View Post
Probably not. Apple is in tablet business. Some other companies are in waterproof case business, and some third companies are in navigation software business. Together they could provide convincing packages. (It is also in principle possible that Apple will some day make also waterproof tablets.)



Probably they try to keep their remaining proprietary interfaces like the radar interface closed . Time however works against them. If they have lots of air in their plotter prices, I would sell them cheaper (I understand that some of their features are not cheap, and people are willing to pay for those parts). I would also try to provide good software integration and some additional improved and improving features between all their gadgets as part of their branded "complete navigation packages". They should thus concentrate in providing more value per dollar instead of relying on their historical dominance of the market.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I don't think anyone in the market is currently relying on their past dominance.

Marine instrument manufacturers are adopting new technology quite rapidly per size of market, succeeding prior models about every 1.5 years.

Meanwhile, owners of 20 year old products (that's how reliable it is) are crying foul when spare parts support is finally withdrawn. Let's see how Apple does with that. ;-)

Apple certainly doesn't play the value per dollar game. They are relying on market dominance and style (that 13 year old girls will try to get their parents to pay any amount for).

I see Android based tablets just took over iOS tablets in sales. Interesting to see what happens now.

Personally, I think the writing is on the wall for Apple. The future user will not support paying exhorbitant amounts to have "i" in front of their device name.

Meanwhile, I curse my damn iPhone every day for its horrible design, weighing form way over function. I want something rugged and waterproof. ;-)

FWIW.

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Old 01-03-2016, 14:06   #92
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Apple certainly doesn't play the value per dollar game. They are relying on market dominance and style (that 13 year old girls will try to get their parents to pay any amount for).
Apple certainly has air in its prices. On the other hand they are on a rather open market, so they must have some value that justifies those prices. Part of that value is the form factor and the i letter. I have paid some extra to them because I want to avoid the extra headache that some other products tend to cause. It may be that Apple must lower their prices if they can not stay ahead of others (as in the days of Steve Jobs). All this is good for the consumers in the navigation market.

P.S. Plotter manufacturers should consider also making software for the tablets (not to jump there, but to plan forward and be ready). A nice free software package with brand specific features could increase sales of their hardware, including weatherproof extra displays at the helm, including radar data at both displays etc.
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Old 01-03-2016, 15:50   #93
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Juho View Post
Apple certainly has air in its prices. On the other hand they are on a rather open market, so they must have some value that justifies those prices. Part of that value is the form factor and the i letter. I have paid some extra to them because I want to avoid the extra headache that some other products tend to cause. It may be that Apple must lower their prices if they can not stay ahead of others (as in the days of Steve Jobs). All this is good for the consumers in the navigation market.

P.S. Plotter manufacturers should consider also making software for the tablets (not to jump there, but to plan forward and be ready). A nice free software package with brand specific features could increase sales of their hardware, including weatherproof extra displays at the helm, including radar data at both displays etc.
Chartplotter manufacturers do make software and supply it free for mobile devices. One can view everything that is on their MFD, and control it, with their mobile device via WIFI.

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Old 01-03-2016, 16:07   #94
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Chartplotter manufacturers do make software and supply it free for mobile devices. One can view everything that is on their MFD, and control it, with their mobile device via WIFI.

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Ok, good for them. I can see Raymarine radar control and MFD control in the AppStore. I would consider adding general purpose navigation and general purpose instrument control too (to take the lead, not just defend the old proprietary strongholds). Otherwise they will face the risk of tablet software becoming the central platform for sailors (starting from route planning, then device control etc.).
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Old 01-03-2016, 22:11   #95
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Ramblinrod,

Why in the world would YOU install a monstrosity like this directly on front of the helm, obscuring the view? And then consider it an absolute must-have safety necessity? How can anyone even see around it to steer properly? 'Looks kind of distracting to say the very least....

This photo was taken directly from YOUR company's promotional website.
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Old 01-03-2016, 22:39   #96
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

For comparison, here's our helm with the iPad RAAM mounting bracket in place. It's very easy to see all around with a clear 360 degree unobstructed view. I'd removed the iPad from the mount in order to take the picture using the iPad.
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Old 02-03-2016, 00:04   #97
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Ramblinrod,

Why in the world would YOU install a monstrosity like this directly on front of the helm, obscuring the view? And then consider it an absolute must-have safety necessity? How can anyone even see around it to steer properly? 'Looks kind of distracting to say the very least....

This photo was taken directly from YOUR company's promotional website.
All instrumentation necessary for operating the boat, is right there in one spot, right below eye level looking forward from the helm.

All are up and out of the way, yet viewable, when seated on either side of the cockpit, steering, while viewing down the side deck, on either tack.

When anywhere on the boat while under Otto, all of the instruments are securely mounted in one place, right where they are needed when one returns to the helm to take the boat back under control.

Everything is waterproof and viewable in direct sunlight, all the time.

The binnacle arch is still there, handy, ready to grab at a moments notice.

And if one happened to fall on the helm pod (and they have), they would bounce off, rather than knock it off into the sea.

Have been considering upgrading lately (current system components are 8 to 15 years old), but it all still works like a charm, and does everything we need it to.

Last year, we added the new SH GX2200 VHF, RAM mic, folding wheel, and salon cushions. This year we are replacing the furler, canvas, and V-berth cushions. Next year, we are repowering. So new electronics, will likely come after that.
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Old 02-03-2016, 00:26   #98
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
For comparison, here's our helm with the iPad RAAM mounting bracket in place. It's very easy to see all around with a clear 360 degree unobstructed view. I'd removed the iPad from the mount in order to take the picture using the iPad.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I normally advise sailors to stay away from touch screens (or lock them off on hybrid MFDs when underway) as they are so friggin` difficult to operate properly when the boat is moving. (I have enough trouble with my virtual keypads when sitting still.)
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Old 02-03-2016, 04:05   #99
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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All instrumentation necessary for operating the boat, is right there in one spot, right below eye level looking forward from the helm.

And that is the big mistake. You can only see the instruments when you are aft of the steering wheel while cruising is done on Autopilot and everybody will be safe and cozy in front of it... without any displays.

Instruments should be visible from anywhere in the cockpit. Kenomac is right: that navpod is severely blocking views.
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Old 02-03-2016, 04:13   #100
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Ramblinrod,

Why in the world would YOU install a monstrosity like this directly on front of the helm, obscuring the view? And then consider it an absolute must-have safety necessity? How can anyone even see around it to steer properly? 'Looks kind of distracting to say the very least....

This photo was taken directly from YOUR company's promotional website.
Oh come on you put a miget behind the helm and claim the setup is an obstruction? Her shoulders barely reach above the lifelines
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Old 02-03-2016, 07:08   #101
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
All instrumentation necessary for operating the boat, is right there in one spot, right below eye level looking forward from the helm.

All are up and out of the way, yet viewable, when seated on either side of the cockpit, steering, while viewing down the side deck, on either tack.

When anywhere on the boat while under Otto, all of the instruments are securely mounted in one place, right where they are needed when one returns to the helm to take the boat back under control.

Everything is waterproof and viewable in direct sunlight, all the time.

The binnacle arch is still there, handy, ready to grab at a moments notice.

And if one happened to fall on the helm pod (and they have), they would bounce off, rather than knock it off into the sea.

Have been considering upgrading lately (current system components are 8 to 15 years old), but it all still works like a charm, and does everything we need it to.

Last year, we added the new SH GX2200 VHF, RAM mic, folding wheel, and salon cushions. This year we are replacing the furler, canvas, and V-berth cushions. Next year, we are repowering. So new electronics, will likely come after that.
Unlike your boat where everything is located in one spot totally exposed to the elements....

On our IPad equipped Oyster, all important navigational equipment is located in several places simultaneously. Pictured, my wife has everything she needs including radar and AIS directly on front of her while behind the safety and protection of the dodger/sprayhood. Her harness/tether is attached and she's able to use the touchscreen without a problem because she's dry and out of the elements. She's also able to wedge herself in place during periods of foul weather to avoid being "thrown against the binnacle," which seems to be a concern for you on your boat. Because she is seated, her hands remain free to use the touchscreen while her legs perform the task of wedging her body in place. I have a second iPad directly on front of me at the helm attached with the RAAM mount. But usually while underway in nice weather, I'm lying down or sitting under the dodger or Bimini looking occasionally at the iPad and making small adjustments using the auto helm. The same instrumentation is down below at the nav station.

"And if one happened to fall on the helm pod (and they have), they would bounce off, rather than knock it off into the sea." ...Ramblinrod


What? Nobody has ever "fallen on" or "bounced off the [ridiculouly enormous] helm pod" on our boat..... because we don't have a helm pod.
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:02   #102
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
And that is the big mistake. You can only see the instruments when you are aft of the steering wheel while cruising is done on Autopilot and everybody will be safe and cozy in front of it... without any displays.

Instruments should be visible from anywhere in the cockpit. Kenomac is right: that navpod is severely blocking views.
Interesting, in the photos posted above, where is the "on-watch" person? At the helm.

In one photo, the helms person has all necessary instruments and controls to operate the boat safely, right where they are needed.

In the other photo, they don't. In fact, the primary navigation tool is in the hands of an off-watch person, who is not concentrating on the operation of the vessel at all. Does anyone else have a problem with that?

Clearly, helm pod instruments are not visible when "on-watch" is soaking in rays on the foredeck in benign conditions, Otto is on, crew is down below making lunch. They don't need to be.

For those normal circumstances, no matter where the primary navigation instruments are mounted, they would likely be in the wrong place.

If one is curious about the boat position, having last checked about an hour ago, they can easily check it on a mobile device, wherever they are. No problem. I'm all for that. Do it myself. All the time.

Now if they have a sudden MOB, where does one need to be to:

1. Disengage auto? Helm.
2. Turn the boat around? Helm.
3. Start engine? Helm
4. Engage transmission? Helm
5. Set reciprocal course? Helm
6. Steer to it? Helm

And in this boat (not necessarily all):

7. Trim, douse, or deploy the foresail? Helm.
8. Adjust the traveller? Helm.
9. Adjust the mainsheet? Helm.
10. Call a MayDay (if necessary, hope not)? Helm.

When in close quarters with other vessels, in marinas, canals, pulling up to a sandbar, anchor spot, etc., where does one need to be? Helm.

So having instruments and controls at the helm is a good thing, WHEN they are needed. When they are not needed, where they are on the boat is completely moot.

Obscured view? Wrong.

For the photo above, the helm's field of view to all waters surrounding the boat, is completely unobscured by the pod, when at the helm, in any position.

She is 4'10", and crouching a bit, to the low side, to look into the camera.

The pod height was selected to suit her.

I have been on all kinds of boats where a number of instruments are up under the dodger. On many, in bad weather, when one would want to be seated in the protection of the dodger, view is often obstructed when attempting to look through the dodger window. I have been on boats where the person on watch, has to leave the protection of the dodger, and look down the side of the cabin, so they can see past the instruments mounted on the cabin top under the dodger.

Talk about obscured view. Some of these owners request I remove the old instruments, fill all the holes, and mount their new instruments in a pod at the helm, where they can access them when needed, and they are out of the way on a long passage, when they aren't.

I can understand how one who advocates iPad use as the primary navigation tool could be reluctant to have it permanently mounted at the helm. (The reason I am involved in this thread.)

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Old 02-03-2016, 08:06   #103
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Rod,

Now... You're just ramblin'
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Old 02-03-2016, 08:17   #104
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Unlike your boat where everything is located in one spot totally exposed to the elements.....
It's OK, they're waterproof.

Quote:
What? Nobody has ever "fallen on" or "bounced off the helm pod" on our boat..... because we don't have a helm pod.

Nope, but when the helm looses their balance while steering with one hand, and operating the iPad with the other, or crew looses there balance while moving around in the cockpit, and grab for the binnacle to steady themselves or break their fall, goodbye mount and iPad.

Again, you win for persistence, but I don't feel your position is valid.

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Old 02-03-2016, 08:27   #105
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Rod,

Now... You're just ramblin'
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