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Old 25-02-2016, 18:44   #31
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
4G requires dual polarised antennas. 3G uses a single antenna. Range is also affected by antenna tuning as mobile phone transmission frequencies vary between city, regional and remote areas. In a nutshell lower frequencies for remote locations and higher frequencies for city locations. You need to match your antenna to your intended cruising grounds and your carrier's broadcast frequencies within those areas.
I've had two antenna's, and both were simply recommended to me for the area via the shop. The first one was recommended by the Telstra web site. But, I broke that trying to get it off for renovations.
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Old 25-02-2016, 18:48   #32
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I've had two antenna's, and both were simply recommended to me for the area via the shop. The first one was recommended by the Telstra web site. But, I broke that trying to get it off for renovations.
4G will work with one antenna, it just wont be high speed 4G unless the devices internal antenna can receive the signal.

Actually I just remembered I had a bookmark to the Telstra coverage in Aus.

https://www.telstra.com.au/coverage-...s/our-coverage

Down the page a bit they have a video about on setting up for "Out to sea" coverage.
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Old 25-02-2016, 18:53   #33
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
4G will work with one antenna, it just wont be high speed 4G unless the devices internal antenna can receive the signal.

Actually I just remembered I had a bookmark to the Telstra coverage in Aus.

https://www.telstra.com.au/coverage-...s/our-coverage

Down the page a bit they have a video about on setting up for "Out to sea" coverage.
there also used to be a map of Bass Strait with circles indicating how far out you could get reception with an external antenna. I found it was pretty accurate. But, Can't seem to find it any more.
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:11   #34
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I have a cellulor ariel on the pushpit of my boat which I've connected a 3/4g modem. It gives me internet connection for everywhere I sail, though I don't have voice, every where.

Beyond the cellulor network you would need one of the expensive to purchase and expensive to run satalite options.
So much wrong information in one thread. The cellular iPads have always had an internal gps antenna... No need for cell towers or a sat hookup. They work anywhere there's access to the gps satellites. My original iPad purchased 5 years and ten months ago was like this and so is the iPad Air. Each is loaded with the entire chart catalogue for all of Europe, North America and the entire Mediterranean. The entire Med cost $69. The rest of Europe $80. How much would Garmin or standard charts cost to cover the same areas? Two complete sets of charts loaded into two iPads and two iPhones for less than $150. Four devices. Actually, it cost an extra $29 to load onto the two iPhones. So on our boat with the two PCs, we have six times redundancy.

Do you still think the iPad costs more? Oh yeah..... It also takes pictures, plays music, accesses the Internet, forecasts and overlays weather. Try having all that on your fixed station chart plotter.

My comments are not directed to Rustic Charm, but towards all the misinformed posts. Yes the iPads are our primary source for navigation as they are on most of the cruising couples boats we know. They are widely in use as the chart plotter continues to become extinct.
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Old 25-02-2016, 23:11   #35
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
And most of the few navigating by iPad only have only been doin' it for a year or 2. As more adopt, the tragedy stories will increase. Please identify one tragedy story?This is what I am trying to help prevent, by recommending this practice not be adopted in the first place. It just isn't safe. WHY? Please elaborate.

We've been navigating safely for five years and 10 months using only ipads along with a PC, up and down the California coast, England across the Bay of Biscay and into the Mediterranean, throughout the Spanish coast and Balearics and now in Italy, Corsica and Sardinia.

I know the issues we had with a wireless VHF mic flying through the cockpit and always being dead when needed.

I can't even imagine not having the chartplotter bolted in place and being direct connected to the house bank. I mean , I know it can be done without, but why, to make cruising harder and less fun?

The ipad is easier and more fun, besides... who wants to always stand behind the helm to see the chartplotter. The ipad can be anywhere on the boat.

I just don't buy the affordability argument. A basic chartplotter with charts Only US charts, charts outside the US cost a small fortune. is US$350. How much is an iPad with waterproof (only when not plugged in) case, and a robust mounting bracket that one could grab while falling, and it would stay intact?

We use a complete set of European and Mediterranean charts which would cost a fortune on anything but an ipad. plus the $350 basic chartplotter you compare is so small you can't even read the tiny screen. An ipad air 1st generation cellular can be purchased used for less than $300, add a waterproof case for about $30 and Nobeltec or INavx app and some charts. Less than $450 total.



Ramblin Rod
The ipad is waterproof when enclosed in a $35 Lifeproof case. Ours have gotten soaked many times. Been dunked in the ocean.... but never a toilet.
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Old 26-02-2016, 02:46   #36
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
So much wrong information in one thread. The cellular iPads have always had an internal gps antenna... No need for cell towers or a sat hookup. They work anywhere there's access to the gps satellites. My original iPad purchased 5 years and ten months ago was like this and so is the iPad Air. Each is loaded with the entire chart catalogue for all of Europe, North America and the entire Mediterranean. The entire Med cost $69. The rest of Europe $80. How much would Garmin or standard charts cost to cover the same areas? Two complete sets of charts loaded into two iPads and two iPhones for less than $150. Four devices. Actually, it cost an extra $29 to load onto the two iPhones. So on our boat with the two PCs, we have six times redundancy.

Do you still think the iPad costs more? Oh yeah..... It also takes pictures, plays music, accesses the Internet, forecasts and overlays weather. Try having all that on your fixed station chart plotter.

My comments are not directed to Rustic Charm, but towards all the misinformed posts. Yes the iPads are our primary source for navigation as they are on most of the cruising couples boats we know. They are widely in use as the chart plotter continues to become extinct.
'Chart plotter continues to become extint' seriously?

I forcaste that 'chart plotters' will evolve into being web accessible. They will basically be mulit function displays and lap tops combined with word processing, anle to print from them, weather routing, etc.
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Old 26-02-2016, 04:17   #37
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I forcaste that 'chart plotters' will evolve into being web accessible. They will basically be mulit function displays and lap tops combined with word processing, anle to print from them, weather routing, etc.
I.e. they become tablets. Convergence. Both sides win.
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Old 26-02-2016, 05:34   #38
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
'Chart plotter continues to become extint' seriously?

I forcaste that 'chart plotters' will evolve into being web accessible. They will basically be mulit function displays and lap tops combined with word processing, anle to print from them, weather routing, etc.
Actually, print and Web browse functionality would be pretty cool. Even being able to just grab or record screen shots to save would be a blast.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 26-02-2016, 05:51   #39
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

I am being asked more and more to integrate tablets into a boats existing nav set up. As always I try to be certain of the quality of components before I install them for customers. I discovered the Scan Strut ROKK mounts a while ago and they are really quite amazing. With almost 1/4 turn they lock solidly into place. Scan Strut hired one of the design engineers from Dyson who designed this elegant solution. Hands down the finest ball & socket mount I have ever used.

Finding a truly waterproof case for an iPad that has a robust back mount design proved more difficult than I had anticipated. Some companies that initially made them have stopped production and others were not as water proof as they claimed. After three or four cases tried I wound up with a LifeProof Nuud case and their mount.

Side view Scanstrut ROKK mount & iPad Air... The ROKK mount will even fit at the rounded part of the pedestal guard.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.

Daylight visibility, overheating in the direct sun & battery life of the iPad still sucks, but it is nice to have it firmly mounted. This iPad Air is in a Lifeproof Nuud case SKU: 1901-01 with the Lifeproof Mounting Cradle SKU: 1935. The Scanstrut ROKK uses the AMPS adapter plate to connect to the LifeProof mount.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


LifeProof Mounting Cradle with AMPS standard bolt pattern:
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


You need the adapter (left) RL-505 / AMPS and the ROK mount RL-ARM (right). Together they run a bit over $100.00
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


This is a great mount for the iPad and when not charging it remains water proof. The mount is solid as a rock and can be bumped and nudged without knocking the iPad out of the mounting cradle.

This still does not solve any of the standard iPad issues such as;

Screen smudges
Wet weather touch screen performance, or lack there of
Waterproof charging capability
Battery life
Poor daylight visibility
Screen glare
Overheating & subsequent shut down in direct sun
etc. etc..

But it does get it to your pedestal or cockpit and Rokk has many other mount adapters too....
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Old 26-02-2016, 07:00   #40
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
'Chart plotter continues to become extint' seriously?

I forcaste that 'chart plotters' will evolve into being web accessible. They will basically be mulit function displays and lap tops combined with word processing, able to print from them, weather routing, etc.
In other words.... Chartplotters will turn into iPads.
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Old 26-02-2016, 08:45   #41
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We use a complete set of European and Mediterranean charts which would cost a fortune on anything but an ipad.
Again, if I've told you once, I've told you a MILLION times, stop exaggerating.

;-)

As a result of this thread, I did a quick search on electronic charts in Europe and the Med.

Being previously familiar only with the relatively low cost of proper electronic chart solutions for North America, I empathise with sailors in other parts of the world who are sailing on a budget and are burdened with a higher cost of electronic charts.

This however, does not eliminate the burden on those skippers to properly outfit there vessels with appropriate safety and navigation gear.

Last I checked, nobody is making anybody sail a recreational vessel.

Hmmmm, let me process this for a second.

Sails an Oyster 53, but claims financial hardship when it comes to purchasing electronic charts for a chartplotter.

Wait a minute. That's it!

Yup, now I have truly heard it all. ;-)

Must get back to work, helping skippers make their boats safe, installing chartplotters on boats ranging from 45 year old 26 footers.

If you continue your current practices, and you loose your boat or a loved one, you will have my sympathy, even if, it would have been totally avoided had the use of a proper chartplotter saved the day.

That is the kind of stand-up guy I am.

The question is, under these circumstances, "Would you be able to live with yourself?

If your answer is "yes", then there is no point in my proceeding any further with this thread.

RamblinRod
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Old 26-02-2016, 09:26   #42
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I am being asked more and more to integrate tablets into a boats existing nav set up. As always I try to be certain of the quality of components before I install them for customers. I discovered the Scan Strut ROKK mounts a while ago and they are really quite amazing. With almost 1/4 turn they lock solidly into place. Scan Strut hired one of the design engineers from Dyson who designed this elegant solution. Hands down the finest ball & socket mount I have ever used.

Finding a truly waterproof case for an iPad that has a robust back mount design proved more difficult than I had anticipated. Some companies that initially made them have stopped production and others were not as water proof as they claimed. After three or four cases tried I wound up with a LifeProof Nuud case and their mount.

Side view Scanstrut ROKK mount & iPad Air... The ROKK mount will even fit at the rounded part of the pedestal guard.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.

Daylight visibility, overheating in the direct sun & battery life of the iPad still sucks, but it is nice to have it firmly mounted. This iPad Air is in a Lifeproof Nuud case SKU: 1901-01 with the Lifeproof Mounting Cradle SKU: 1935. The Scanstrut ROKK uses the AMPS adapter plate to connect to the LifeProof mount.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


LifeProof Mounting Cradle with AMPS standard bolt pattern:
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


You need the adapter (left) RL-505 / AMPS and the ROK mount RL-ARM (right). Together they run a bit over $100.00
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.


This is a great mount for the iPad and when not charging it remains water proof. The mount is solid as a rock and can be bumped and nudged without knocking the iPad out of the mounting cradle.

This still does not solve any of the standard iPad issues such as;

Screen smudges
Wet weather touch screen performance, or lack there of
Waterproof charging capability
Battery life
Poor daylight visibility
Screen glare
Overheating & subsequent shut down in direct sun
etc. etc..

But it does get it to your pedestal or cockpit and Rokk has many other mount adapters too....
Thanks Rod,

I do like Scan Strut deck and helm pods.

I am really glad to see the plotter right beside the iPad in that installation.

When the iPad dies, goes missing, or is otherwise unusable, the proper solution is right there.

RamblinRod
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Old 26-02-2016, 10:05   #43
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Again, if I've told you once, I've told you a MILLION times, stop exaggerating.

;-)

As a result of this thread, I did a quick search on electronic charts in Europe and the Med.

Being previously familiar only with the relatively low cost of proper electronic chart solutions for North America, I empathise with sailors in other parts of the world who are sailing on a budget and are burdened with a higher cost of electronic charts.

This however, does not eliminate the burden on those skippers to properly outfit there vessels with appropriate safety and navigation gear.

Last I checked, nobody is making anybody sail a recreational vessel.

Hmmmm, let me process this for a second.

Sails an Oyster 53, but claims financial hardship when it comes to purchasing electronic charts for a chartplotter.

Wait a minute. That's it!

Yup, now I have truly heard it all. ;-)

Must get back to work, helping skippers make their boats safe, installing chartplotters on boats ranging from 45 year old 26 footers.

If you continue your current practices, and you loose your boat or a loved one, you will have my sympathy, even if, it would have been totally avoided had the use of a proper chartplotter saved the day.

That is the kind of stand-up guy I am.

The question is, under these circumstances, "Would you be able to live with yourself?

If your answer is "yes", then there is no point in my proceeding any further with this thread.

RamblinRod
Marine Service Provider
About Sheen Marine
I understand you have a marine electronics business to protect, but you're not gaining any credibility by posting misleading information regarding competing navigational systems. How likely is it that all six of our navigational systems would die at one time? We have six times redundancy on our boat, if we were to buy a single Chartplotter of any quality and function even remotely comparable to an iPad, we would then just have a single device on which to depend.... Other than our compas and paper charts... Which we also have.

The scare tactics won't work. More and more people are turning to tablets and iPhones enclosed in waterproof cases just like the OP. Traditional chartplotters will soon go the way of cassette recorders, eight track tapes, record players, VCRs etc...... Multiple devices interfaced via onboard wifi is the future.

I can take my iPad Chartplotter over to another boat at the anchorage, and the two of us can compare routes, waypoints, pictures etc. Try that with your helm based Chartplotter.
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:13   #44
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I understand you have a marine electronics business to protect, but you're not gaining any credibility by posting misleading information regarding competing navigational systems. How likely is it that all six of our navigational systems would die at one time? We have six times redundancy on our boat, if we were to buy a single Chartplotter of any quality and function even remotely comparable to an iPad, we would then just have a single device on which to depend.... Other than our compas and paper charts... Which we also have.

The scare tactics won't work. More and more people are turning to tablets and iPhones enclosed in waterproof cases just like the OP. Traditional chartplotters will soon go the way of cassette recorders, eight track tapes, record players, VCRs etc...... Multiple devices interfaced via onboard wifi is the future.

I can take my iPad Chartplotter over to another boat at the anchorage, and the two of us can compare routes, waypoints, pictures etc. Try that with your helm based Chartplotter.
Please show me one bit of misleading information I have stated?

I have disclosed very clearly that I own a marine service business.
True or False?

I have not attempted to mislead anyone. True or False?

My posts are intended to assist all viewers. True or False?

A smart phone or tablet is a relatively fragile, non-marine grade, mobile computing device. True or False?

They are not a chartplotter. True or False?

Apple mobile devices are not water proof. True or False?

A chart plotter is a marine grade device, designed specifically to run navigation software, and for integration with other marine instruments. True of False?

There is no such thing as an "iPad chartplotter". True or False?

Mobile computing devices do not integrate easily with all marine instruments. True or false?

I have never suggested one should not have mobile computing devices aboard. True or False?

Right now, my chartplotter is under a plastic bag, in the cockpit, with no other cover, exposed to rain, sleet, snow, ice, and wind. True or False?

This is how I recommend to friends and customers they be laid up for Canadian winter. True or False?

I would never recommend this treatment for a tablet or smart phone. True or False?

I often have mobile computing devices on my boat running navigation software, and have done so since way before the iPad or iPhone were invented. True or False?

In fact, I promote using WIFI enabled mobile devices on boats, such as handheld smart phones and tablets where they are protected from the marine environment, and WIFI enabled TVs so one can get the big picture from the convenience of their salon and/or master stateroom. True or False?

I have never once stated that a mobile device should be removed from a boat because a chartplotter is aboard. True or False?

I have never suggested that multiple mobile devices are likely to suddenly quit working all at once. True or False?

All it takes is the one device that the skipper is counting on, to fail, to create a potentially serious issue. True or False?

Wireless marine instruments were invented well before the iPhone or iPad. True or False?

Apple did not invent wireless communications. True or False?

Presently, many mobile computing device manufactures are taking steps to make their devices more waterproof. True or False?

The likely business justification for doing so, is customer demand for greater reliability in wet conditions, based on prior bad experiences. True or False?

We have yet to see an iPad or iPhone maintain waterproof integrity, when plugged in, even when enclosed in a 3rd party "water proof" enclosure. True or False?

Chartplotters do, all of them, without a 3rd party enclosure, even the cheapest (when installed per instructions). True or False?

A mobile computing device will power down, when the battery dies. True or False?

That a mobile computing device can be carried over to another boat to review charts is definitely a convenient feature, that we all enjoy. True of False?

It is this mobility that could enable a passerby to easily remove the device from the boat. True or False.

When this mobility is deployed, the device is no longer on the boat where it may be needed. True of False?

When this mobility is deployed, it is more likely the mobile device may be dropped on a hard surface or into the water, rendering it damaged or irretrievable. True or False.

A chartplotter is more likely to remain where it is intended to be. True or False?

So how did you score?

Are any of the statements above false?

When considering matters that may impact vessel or crew safety, please consider input from many sources and weigh the arguments logically.

Choose wisely.

RamblinRod
Marine Service Provider
About Sheen Marine
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:51   #45
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Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

way too many true and false's for me.

How about you both just settle down and move away from the personal stuff

Im one of those that doesnt believe the future is in ipads or tablets, though i do believe they will always be with us. I think they will always be secondary to establsihed intergrated mfd's.

The new range of Raymarine for example, of which i ordered last week an e series, has inbuilt wifi to a tablet or ipad. With the right Raymarine App, i can even control the mfd with the ipad, so its completely intergrated.

But, i dont see tablets or ipads taking on the primary role fir the reasons others have stated. portability, security, water proofness, power, strengh, glare are all problems to me which means i dont wsnt them as my primary means.
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