Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2016, 22:33   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,507
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Yup, and folks sailed across ocean's for hundreds of years without any electronic charts at all.

I certainly wouldn't say that an iPad couldn't be used. Obviously it can be.

Is it safe? More than no charts, but not as safe as a proper chartplotter in my opinion.

Lets face it, when on an ocean passage, one needs to look at a nav display, what, twice per day for 5 minutes?

In contrast, running the ICW, lake, or coastal sailing, one may want a nav display on constantly, at the helm.

I know of a number of portable devices being used as nav instruments that have met Davy Jones, but not one chartplotter (unless it went down with the ship).

Yes, on a cloudy day, under a dodger or bimini, an iPad is viewable if you hold it at the best angle. Take it back to the helm, and get some sun on the display; impossible to read (not to mention one hand holding the display, the other swiping the screen, and no hand for the boat).
Watch the video a little more closely.... There's land in the form of islands all around us, my wife is and was monitoring the iPad chart plotting app INavx or Nobeltec almost continuously for nearly ten hours. Looks a little wet too. Gosh.... how did we ever make it back safely? Maybe.... the same way we've been doing it for over six years now.

iPads in a waterproof case being unsafe = absolute rubbish.

I've actually known several sailors whose helm mounted chart plotters crapped the bed and left them only with a working iPad.... Which is sort of the opposite to what you suggest. One nice fellow I met in Cartegena, Spain with his family decided keep going on to Croatia and forget about waiting to have his Chartplotter fixed which would have taken three days. Kept going with just his single iPad with Open CPN installed. I don't recall hearing of him having any problems.

Can you identify a single instance of a sailor becoming stranded when their iPad let them down? I also have a friend in California who's almost brand new Chartplotter crapped the bed. Seems to be a lot of that sort of thing happening. With two iPads and maybe even a new iPad pro this season (if Lifeproof starts selling a case), if one unit ever lets us down (which hasn't yet happened in six years) we always have one or two more onboard for redundancy.

We can see them just fine under the Bimini, and the touch screens work great. Plus we don't have to stand behind the helm in order to read the "proper" Chartplotter.

Wake up sleepyhead, multiple hand held devices are the future. Helm mounted chartplotters will be extinct in a few years.
__________________

__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 10:56   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Finally finished flying for the summer, packing all the junk i bought for the boat; Boats in Simons Town RSA
Boat: Dix 38 pilothouse
Posts: 206
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Watch the video a little more closely.... There's land in the form of islands all

Wake up sleepyhead, multiple hand held devices are the future. Helm mounted chartplotters will be extinct in a few years.
OK Im with you. The trouble is I see important things like radar becoming so propritary you wound be able to buy a radar unless it is intigrated with a MFD. Id be surprised if we see any new standalone type products with the new gen radar gear.

Im not sold on apps on these wireless radars yet.

Guess it depends where you operate. Id like , snow, fog and big rocks.
__________________

__________________
lamadriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 16:04   #18
Registered User
 
Juho's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 716
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

My normal cockpit configuration for the helmsman includes official paper charts and a tablet. Paper charts are there because they work always and they are guaranteed to contain all the official information. In addition to paper charts I want to have two modern devices that can show the GPS position of the boat on a map. The navigation programs of tablets can do this fine (and have also other useful features in addition to this basic need).

Next, soon after that, I want to have a second person onboard, using paper charts or some electronic device to navigate independently and double check everything. We sail often in the Finnish archipelago where you will normally make more than one hundred routing decisions per day. The helmsman might get tired and forget something, so it is good if someone monitors the sanity of his decisions.

The paper charts are protected with a plastic cover. But the tablet is simply in its leather case. Usually it lies somewhere next to the helmsman. If the weather is too wet, the tablet moves under the sprayhood.

We have not mounted the tablet in any fixed location. There are two reasons for that. An additional mount would be on our way in the cockpit in one way or another, and since in direct sunlight the display of the tablet can be hard to read. You may need to move the tablet into a suitable position to read it. With polaroid lenses you may also have to tilt the tablet in some direction in order to read it better.

We have a plotter inside, but it is becoming old and tired. We will probably buy a large tablet to replace it. We can mount it in the same place (no reading problems inside).

A real plotter would be nice outside because it would be fully weatherproof, it would be easier to read in direct sunlight, and a fixed mount would allow operation with one hand. But so far it seems that we are going in the direction of having multiple small navigation devices onboard. That means good redundancy, and you can use those same tablets for many other things too (e.g. the new big one as a TV).
__________________
Juho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2016, 19:13   #19
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,921
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Watch the video a little more closely.... There's land in the form of islands all around us, my wife is and was monitoring the iPad chart plotting app INavx or Nobeltec almost continuously for nearly ten hours. Looks a little wet too. Gosh.... how did we ever make it back safely? Maybe.... the same way we've been doing it for over six years now.

iPads in a waterproof case being unsafe = absolute rubbish.

I've actually known several sailors whose helm mounted chart plotters crapped the bed and left them only with a working iPad.... Which is sort of the opposite to what you suggest. One nice fellow I met in Cartegena, Spain with his family decided keep going on to Croatia and forget about waiting to have his Chartplotter fixed which would have taken three days. Kept going with just his single iPad with Open CPN installed. I don't recall hearing of him having any problems.

Can you identify a single instance of a sailor becoming stranded when their iPad let them down? I also have a friend in California who's almost brand new Chartplotter crapped the bed. Seems to be a lot of that sort of thing happening. With two iPads and maybe even a new iPad pro this season (if Lifeproof starts selling a case), if one unit ever lets us down (which hasn't yet happened in six years) we always have one or two more onboard for redundancy.

We can see them just fine under the Bimini, and the touch screens work great. Plus we don't have to stand behind the helm in order to read the "proper" Chartplotter.

Wake up sleepyhead, multiple hand held devices are the future. Helm mounted chartplotters will be extinct in a few years.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am certainly not asleep.

I see value in having charting software on mobile devices, and enjoy it myself, with 2 devices on our boat, that may be out in the cockpit on a nice day. But the chartplotter is out there constantly, right now in fact, with a big storm heading our way.

I wouldn't even consider going off-shore without a proper chartplotter.

(I got crapped on last week for suggesting one doesn't need an EPIRB to leave the ICW to go to the Bahamas and back.)

If someone made a mobile device that was as robust (they aren't) and as waterproof (they aren't) and as sunlight viewable (they aren't) and as permanently mountable (they aren't) as compatible with peripheral marine instruments (they aren't), and easy to operate with one hand in a lumpy see (then I would consider it, but then again, it would be very similar to a current chartplotter. ;-)

iPads and iPhones are such fragile design, whose form has been dictated by pre-teen girls, in that function (save for taking selfies, and re-tweeting) has been all but completely ignored, they just aren't suitable for this application in my opinion.

I'm sure there have been chartplotter failures, most likely do to improper installation or operator error, but give me a break, 17% of all smart phones fail from being dropped in the toilet.
__________________
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 14:03   #20
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,921
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
...my wife is and was monitoring the iPad chart....

Gosh.... how did we ever make it back safely? Maybe.... the same way we've been doing it for over six years now.
Unless your current device was a pre-release prototype, and you wrote the
charting software for it 2 months before the device was released, I think you are mistaken.

The first iPad was released on April 3, 2010.

As my retired OPP friend says, "If I've told you once, I've told you a MILLION times, stop exaggerating." ;-)

PS, the reason we never hear of a catastrophic boat tragedy due to relying on an iPad for navigation is that nobody (relatively) does it.

(OK if you can exaggerate for your position, so can I for mine.)

Most mobile device users have chartplotters, they can fire up when (not if) the iPad packs it in (if it isn't already running all the time).

And most of the few navigating by iPad only have only been doin' it for a year or 2. As more adopt, the tragedy stories will increase. This is what I am trying to help prevent, by recommending this practice not be adopted in the first place. It just isn't safe.

I know the issues we had with a wireless VHF mic flying through the cockpit and always being dead when needed.

I can't even imagine not having the chartplotter bolted in place and being direct connected to the house bank. I mean , I know it can be done without, but why, to make cruising harder and less fun?

I just don't buy the affordability argument. A basic chartplotter with charts is US$350. How much is an iPad with waterproof (only when not plugged in) case, and a robust mounting bracket that one could grab while falling, and it would stay intact?

Ramblin Rod
__________________
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 14:17   #21
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Unless your current device was a pre-release prototype, and you wrote the
charting software for it 2 months before the device was released, I think you are mistaken.

The first iPad was released on April 3, 2010.

As my retired OPP friend says, "If I've told you once, I've told you a MILLION times, stop exaggerating." ;-)

PS, the reason we never hear of a catastrophic boat tragedy due to relying on an iPad for navigation is that nobody (relatively) does it.

(OK if you can exaggerate for your position, so can I for mine.)

Most mobile device users have chartplotters, they can fire up when (not if) the iPad packs it in (if it isn't already running all the time).

And most of the few navigating by iPad only have only been doin' it for a year or 2. As more adopt, the tragedy stories will increase. This is what I am trying to help prevent, by recommending this practice not be adopted in the first place. It just isn't safe.

I know the issues we had with a wireless VHF mic flying through the cockpit and always being dead when needed.

I can't even imagine not having the chartplotter bolted in place and being direct connected to the house bank. I mean , I know it can be done without, but why, to make cruising harder and less fun?

I just don't buy the affordability argument. A basic chartplotter with charts is US$350. How much is an iPad with waterproof (only when not plugged in) case, and a robust mounting bracket that one could grab while falling, and it would stay intact?

Ramblin Rod
agree entirely. a basic chartplotter is half that of an ipad. It seems nuts in my opinion to be relying on an ipad or smart phone. By all means, use them as secondary plotters, but not as your main chart plotter. And of course charts should be on all boats.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 14:46   #22
Registered User
 
mgmtrainor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Perhaps you can answer these questions for me. When buying an IPad, I've seen information that says you have to have the cellular option or the GPS won't be accurate. Is this true? I have also seen devices that plug into the power port of the Ipad which claim to increase accuracy, Is this true? If I am using the Ipad for navigation will I incur data charges? Obviously it must be possible to use an Ipad offshore without an outside connections, Am I missing something or just getting bad information?
__________________
mgmtrainor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 14:50   #23
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmtrainor View Post
Perhaps you can answer these questions for me. When buying an IPad, I've seen information that says you have to have the cellular option or the GPS won't be accurate. Is this true? I have also seen devices that plug into the power port of the Ipad which claim to increase accuracy, Is this true? If I am using the Ipad for navigation will I incur data charges? Obviously it must be possible to use an Ipad offshore without an outside connections, Am I missing something or just getting bad information?
I found that was true of the ipad 4 and 4's. Some on here will dispute it, but I tested it and found that by taking the simm out with a 4 or 4's and the gps function didn't work at all. And likewise with a non cellular ipad 4 or 4's, if you loose wifi, you loose gps.

I now have a 5's and it's cellulor and despite pulling the simm, it seems to still give me gps capability.

I would definatley not rely on it as my sole method though. I won't even rely on it for sms messages.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 15:03   #24
Registered User
 
mgmtrainor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

So How do you supply wi-fi to the Ipad offshore?
__________________
mgmtrainor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 15:11   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 45
Posts: 173
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

My understanding is that the non cellular iPad does not have the GPS built in, but the cellular version does. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this? I have used a cellular iPad outside of usable cell data range and the built in GPS seemed to be perfectly accurate.
__________________
SteveInMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 15:33   #26
Registered User
 
Hoofsmit's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: cornwall uk
Posts: 569
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveInMD View Post
My understanding is that the non cellular iPad does not have the GPS built in, but the cellular version does. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this? I have used a cellular iPad outside of usable cell data range and the built in GPS seemed to be perfectly accurate.

Your understanding is correct , the cellular models have a gps and will work without the simm but on some you have to turn off ' mobile data' in settings
and the non cellular models do not have a gps chip , but you can use a wireless gps connected via Bluetooth like the 'bad elf' which also acts as a stand alone gps to plot position on chart if the iPad fails
Be aware that using an external gps will use considerable battery when connected for creating your track but you can set the bad elf to record positions less frequently thus saving a bit of charge and turn off Bluetooth until you need to update

My opinion --- the iPads real value is in the cartography purchase, Navionics cost about 4x less on the iPad than a card for a plotter !


Sent from my iPad.......i apologise for the auto corrects !!!
__________________
Hoofsmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 16:20   #27
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmtrainor View Post
So How do you supply wi-fi to the Ipad offshore?
I have a cellulor ariel on the pushpit of my boat which I've connected a 3/4g modem. It gives me internet connection for everywhere I sail, though I don't have voice, every where.

Beyond the cellulor network you would need one of the expensive to purchase and expensive to run satalite options.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 18:04   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 45
Posts: 173
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I have a cellulor ariel on the pushpit of my boat which I've connected a 3/4g modem. It gives me internet connection for everywhere I sail, though I don't have voice, every where.

Beyond the cellulor network you would need one of the expensive to purchase and expensive to run satalite options.
I've considered adding an external cellular antenna. Do you know what sort of range from the tower you can get?
__________________
SteveInMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 18:23   #29
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveInMD View Post
I've considered adding an external cellular antenna. Do you know what sort of range from the tower you can get?
This is where I live, they say it's between 10 and 40 miles out (20 - 70km). I seem to loose voice at about 10 miles but keep the ability to use the internet too about 40 miles. When I first purchased the boat and we hit a storm in the strait, I was able to skype phone call a conversation with police, when a voice phone call wouldn't go through. emails were fine, sms messages wouldn't go. This is 3G. I don't think 4G extends to the coast as yet.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 18:43   #30
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,734
Re: iPad Case and Mount Options

4G requires dual polarised antennas. 3G uses a single antenna. Range is also affected by antenna tuning as mobile phone transmission frequencies vary between city, regional and remote areas. In a nutshell lower frequencies for remote locations and higher frequencies for city locations. You need to match your antenna to your intended cruising grounds and your carrier's broadcast frequencies within those areas.
__________________

__________________
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Ipad

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Waterproof IPad Case? Max Sail Marine Electronics 22 10-01-2017 14:30
Case for Ipad mini admiralslater General Sailing Forum 28 16-05-2016 16:42
iPad in waterproof case gets very hot landonshaw Marine Electronics 0 17-05-2015 06:01
For Sale: Dry Case Waterproof Phone, Camera & MP3 Case - NEW off-the-grid Classifieds Archive 2 11-07-2012 15:58
iPad and GPS Options Farr50PH Navigation 10 07-07-2011 15:55



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.