I want to buy new EPIRB, please help!!!

[Bill_E]

That is an excellent price for a new EPIRB. However that model does not have an internal GPS. But I did a quick check and found that the same company does make or at least is in the process of final marketing of an EPIRB with a GPS, the model 403G and it is also very well priced. MT403G 406 EPIRB with gps - $537.26USD : Discount Marine, Ships chandlers, boat supplies, inflatable boats, electronics, hardware and everything else

I did a very quick check for other sellers and only found one other link to an Australian outlet. These are relatively new and are made in Australia but the price sure is good for the features that they claim.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wonder how large a solar panel would have to be to keep an EPIRB running a bit longer than the 24-48 hours providedby the internal battery? Even if it only would work during daylight (not enough output to charge a battery for night time usage), it would certainly expand the possibilities for way offshore search efforts.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II

Sorry not possible (at least totaly impractable) for technical reasons. Right now, I don't have the time to expand - sorry.

Originally Posted by bill good

Just be aware small personal types do not meet the standard required for marine ships.

regards bill

True Bill; however the main differences are that PLB aren't required to float (although some do) and their battery life is limited to 24 hours rather than 48 hours. And as I keep harping on about, the second 24 hour period only powers the 121.5 transmitter, so if price is an issue, a PLB is better than no EPIRB

[bill good]

It is not legal to try & use a PLB where a EPIRB is required as the primary (at least in Australia)

Regards Bill

[Wotname]

Again very true Bill, my comment that a PLB is better than no EPIRB was directed to our friends who aren't required to carry either, I should have made that clear in my above post.

[multihullsailor6]

EPIRB question:

The EPIRB should be programmed with the boat's MMSI number which normally gets undertaken by the supplier. How can I check that the programming was done correctly?
Roger

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

EPIRB question:

The EPIRB should be programmed with the boat's MMSI number which normally gets undertaken by the supplier. How can I check that the programming was done correctly?
Roger

Ask the people who programmed it for a printout of the test results (which should be carried out after reprogramming the unit).

Not all EPIRB's can be programmed this way AFAIK (but I could be wrong)

Different manufacturers have different procedures but all 406 beacons can be tested using an EPIRB tester. These aren't cheap so not every shop has one but a shop which has the programming equipment should have one.

At turn on, the first burst of 406 data contains all the coding (hex id, optional data like MMSI, external GPS lat & lon etc). It is also coded as inactive and as such the satellite does not procress the signal. It is this signal that the EPIRB tester decodes.

FWIW, the next transmission (burst of data) occurs about 1 minute later and contains all the same data except it is now coded as active and therefore is processed by the satellite as an active signal. The transmitter continues continues to transmit about every minute for a 24 hour period and then automatically shuts down. Each transmission is about 500 milliseconds. As posted before, the 121.5 transmitter is totaly seperate (apart from the common antenna) and transmits continually until the battery fails (minimum of 48 hours).

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

EPIRB question:

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

The EPIRB should be programmed with the boat's MMSI number which normally gets undertaken by the supplier. How can I check that the programming was done correctly?
Roger

If you mean registering the epirb here is the link http://www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov/

Very few countries have their own registration office so anyone may register theirs with the NOAA mob.

It gets a little tricky for those who buy their EPIRB from one country but want it registered in another country.

Believe me.. its not worth the hassle. Just register it with NOAA and in the description that is shown to emergency services when the button is pushed to show your passage and your notification details in your home country as well as your vessle registration etc.

You then keep the registration up to date with your own login and password.


Mark

[Wotname]

Each beacon is also coded with a country code (eg Australia is 503). The beacon can only registered in the country it is coded for.

Therefore beacons with an Australian code must be registered with AMSA. Likewise with other countries. However, once registered, the beacon can be sailed anywhere around the world without re-registering and the beacon can be activated anywhere. The RCC of the country in which it is registered will be the first place notified should it be activated AFAIK.

An Australian coded beacon can only be reistered in Australian AND ONLY by an Australian citizen or Australian company. I believe (but don't know for sure) that all other countries are similar.

The MMSI coding is a different issue. Some beacons (but not all) can have optional programming of additional information. Usually an MMSI code or say an aircraft registration (or tail number). This is additional identification over and above the unique hex id code already in the beacon. It is possible to fit a NAV/DATA programming unit that stays on the vessel and reprograms the beacon if it is transferred between vessels; however this is getting into the realms of specialist equipment that is not normally found on yachts (at least not the yachts I mix with ).

[MidLandOne]

EPIRB's are coded with either the vessel's MMSI or are serialised (ie the relevant authority in the country issues a serial number which is programmed instead) that depending on the practices of the country it is registered in and the class of vessel. They are not neccesarily coded with an MMSI (after all, for example, many vessels with EPIRB's don't have an MMSI) and that so even when the vessel has an MMSI.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Wotname

The RCC of the country in which it is registered will be the first place notified should it be activated AFAIK.

Unless the protocol has changed very recently the RCC of the country responsible for the Search and Rescue Region that the alert is transmitted from is the one that is alerted.

COSPAS/SARSAT do provide for country RCC's to be notified as a secondary that an alert has been received in another country's SAR Region from a beacon on their register but not all take that up as far as I know. Even so the country in whose SAR Region the alert is received from remains primarily responsible.

Seemingly unknown to most is that a rescue in one country's SAR Region can be managed by the RCC in another country. That other country may be, but does not have to be, the country the alerting beacon is registered in and such have taken place.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Very few countries have their own registration office so anyone may register theirs with the NOAA mob

Mark, I think (but stand to be corrected) what you are referring to is that some (not anyone) can register their EPIRB on the COSPAS/SARSAT International Beacon Registration Database. As far as I know this is managed by NOAA but access is via www.406registration.com or via COSPAS/SARSAT not NOAA directly.

But not anyone can have their EPIRB placed on this database as only some countries allow their vessels/owners to do so. Registrations from vessels not of those countries will not be accepted as far as I understand.

The countries that allow EPIRB's to be entered in the database are generally all small countries being small in population or small in development or economy and the list can be found at List of countries allowed in IBRD. As far as I know, similarly to the other developed countries to which most of us belong, an EPIRB identified with a US vessel cannot go on that database.

As far as I have known NOAA will only put on their own database registrations from countries with the MID's of 303, 336,367,368, 369, 338, 358, 379, 536 & 559 these being for Alaska, Hawaii, Peurto Rico, US Virgin Islands, Northern Marianas, American Samoa and the continental USA. But I stand to be corrected on that and would be pleased for it to be clarified if an authorative reference can be given.

Also it is not correct to say that very few countries have their own beacon databases. Many do, including most developed countries. I believe, but have not trolled through to double check, that all countries responsible for a SAR Region maintain their own databases.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

It gets a little tricky for those who buy their EPIRB from one country but want it registered in another country.

Speaking with the voice of experience it is not particularly tricky. For example, I take it you are in Australia at the moment - I have had EPIRBs programmed in Australia that are to go on the beacon register of other nations. One just has to be provided with written instructions for the coding from the country the beacon is to be registered in or the service provider doing the programming has to be able to obtain it themselves. In some cases the nation on whose register it goes on will require a copy of the coding for their verification.

This should not be beyond the ability of anyone who takes the trouble to find out how to go about it by referring to the reposnsible authority in the country of needed registration (as I myself had to do the first time).

For example, the ability to do this is a point of necessity for world ranging vessels or in the cases of new build vessels to be flagged in another country or the temporary provision of an EPIRB to a vessel under a temporary flag.

[MarkJ]

All good info.

The point is....

there's many ways to skin a cat and miine was bought in the Caribbean and registered via www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov NOT https://www.406registration.com/

I notice the registration is amendable on noaa but not on https://www.406registration.com/ibrd/Dispatch?page=Login because I just checked by looking up my registration. This is even though the websites are virtually the same.

Australia refused to change my thingo unless I paid $30.

As long as it is registered the signal will be picked up and the search and rescue groups will not leave you swimming off Sydney because the unit is registered in the USA.

Its a worldwide system and it will work however for people that break the bureaucracy like us who travel and continue to travel the actual locations of registration matter little. I am not sailing in the USA, Australia or the Caribbean for the next few years so if it goes "Ping!" there wont be a territorial dispute... they will be reaching for the language book to translate Help into Botswanan or whatever

Just get it registered somewhere, somehow, so the folks at home get a phone call while the correct local authorities are fishing us out of the drink


Mark

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Wotname

The RCC of the country in which it is registered will be the first place notified should it be activated AFAIK.

Originally Posted by MidLandOne

Unless the protocol has changed very recently the RCC of the country responsible for the Search and Rescue Region that the alert is transmitted from is the one that is alerted.

Thanks for clearing that up Mid1, I had it base over apex as to who gets notified first.

Originally Posted by MidLandOne

Seemingly unknown to most is that a rescue in one country's SAR Region can be managed by the RCC in another country. That other country may be, but does not have to be, the country the alerting beacon is registered in and such have taken place.

Quite a minefield isn't it when the one gets down to the actual detail of a fairly complex system; yet hopefully a system that most of us will never use.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The point is....

there's many ways to skin a cat and miine was bought in the Caribbean and registered via www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov NOT https://www.406registration.com/

I notice the registration is amendable on noaa but not on https://www.406registration.com/ibrd/Dispatch?page=Login because I just checked by looking up my registration. This is even though the websites are virtually the same...

I think you may be missing the point, so just in case ...

As I said the COSPAS/SARSAT register is administered for COSPAS/SARSAT by NOAA (as far as I know it is NOAA and I do not know the details of the agreement under which it is done) it is not the NOAA register even if it looks the same. Also, where you buy the EPIRB has no bearing whatsoever as to what register it goes on. So your buying the beacon in the Caribbean has nothing whatsoever to do with whether it can or should go on any register be it the NOAA one or the 406registration.com one. For example, if you are an American or your boat is flagged in the USA then it has to go on the NOAA register no matter where you buy the EPIRB.

If you are an American or your boat is (which I assume is the case) then you can register on the NOAA database but not the international COSPAS/SARSAT one as the US does not allow registrations on the COSPAS/SARSAT one (as far as I know).

If you are an Australian or your boat is, say, then similar applies, you can (in fact have to) register it on the Australian database but again not the COSPAS/SARSAT international one because Australia does not permit that.

If you are on the list of countries, say Kenya by way of example, who allow registration of the COSPAS?SARSAT database then you can register on that but not on the register of any other country but your own in the unlikely event your country has its own register.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

...Its a worldwide system and it will work however for people that break the bureaucracy like us who travel and continue to travel the actual locations of registration matter little. I am not sailing in the USA, Australia or the Caribbean for the next few years so if it goes "Ping!" there wont be a territorial dispute... they will be reaching for the language book to translate Help into Botswanan or whatever...

I don't know how you are breaking the bureaucracy. If the beacon is registered with NOAA (if you or the boat is American), or with your home country if not American and it has its own register, or with the international database if your home country allows it then all is ok. It does not matter where in the world the boat is or where the beacon was purchased with respect to what register it goes on, it is the nationality of the boat which determines which register the beacon goes on.

If you are saying that you have registered a beacon with false details for yourself or the boat in order to "break the beaurocracy" then I suspect you are placing yourself at risk. I have no idea why anyone would need to do this as there is no reason whatsoever to do so - correct registration is dead simple.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Just get it registered somewhere, somehow, so the folks at home get a phone call while the correct local authorities are fishing us out of the drink

The point is that you cannot "Just get it registered somewhere, somehow..." it has to be registered in your own or the boat's country (so NOAA for Americans, AMSA for Oz's, MNZ for NZ'ers etc, etc) or on the international register if ones country allows it (most forumites couuntries do not allow it). As far as I know this rule is invariable (but there may be a few odd exceptions, I have not checked but the possibility of at least one country that has a special situation does comes to mind). If the boat is on the register of ships of any country as most internationally travelling boats are then invariably the EPIRB will have to go on the beacon register of the flagging country regardless of the citizenship of the "owners."

A list of points of contact for all countries that have a register is on the COSPAS/SARSAT website.

I have no idea what is so difficult in all of this but it seems that people are determined to make life complicated for themselves. It's simple - the beacon goes on the register of your own country if it has one (this will apply to most of us) or must go on the beacon register of the boat's flag if the boat is on the register of ships of any country. If your country does not have a register for beacons then almost certainly it will be a country that allows registration on the international database.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by MidLandOne

I have no idea what is so difficult in all of this but it seems that people are determined to make life complicated for themselves. It's simple - the beacon goes on the register of your own country if it has one .

Simpler said than done. I assure you I have tried

Mark