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Old 17-01-2019, 15:17   #16
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyon View Post
Wow, does anybody have any thing good to say about B&G?
I have just this Wednesday past, purchased at a great expense almost every electronic instrument you can get for a cruising yacht, all B&G!
I am led to believe their product is amongst the best, afterall they sponsor and use their products in the Volvo Ocean Race, I would have considered that alone as proof of a good product. I spoke to Riley on La Vagabonde about his B&G instruments, he loves them.
My new instruments are being shipped to the shipyard as I speak. I so hope I haven't blown my savings on rubbish.
I guess time will tell!
If Trump Wine sponsored the Masters, would you consider it good wine? Sponsorship does not confer quality, only visibility.

I have all B&G instruments. In terms of functionality the stuff is great and I'm very happy with it. That said, there are one or two gremlins that are annoying and have proven to date to be impossible to rectify. First is I occasionally have to toggle the power to the network on and off at start up to get it to work. Once up, it's solid. Second, the radar setup keeps asking for a heading sensor in order to configure MARPA, even though I have a Precision 9 installed and visible on the network. Stumped.
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Old 17-01-2019, 15:19   #17
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

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Originally Posted by mvmojo View Post
In my 50+ years of boating, many of them full time live-aboard, I can say that it is RARE to find potted marine electronic PCB's. Early on it was because repairs could be made at the component level, i.e., unsolder a failed capacitor and replace it. But, now with PCB's essentially being "replace and toss", there's no reason not to pot them, especially in outdoor, exposed locations. Many boards are alleged to be conformally coated, but experience says that doesn't compare to epoxy potting. I guess potting could be a heat retention issue...?
They make thermally conductive (but electrically insulative, obviously) epoxy compounds. It's a very common practice.
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Old 17-01-2019, 15:46   #18
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

I bought all B&G and when I purchased it I asked in writing (email) if warranty is covered around Australia and the South Pacific and I was sent a return email confirming that it was.

The dealer also will provide on call customer support.

Nothing has failed, so it is untested (Schroeder's support).

From their responses so far I am confident I wouldn't be let down by them.
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Old 17-01-2019, 16:09   #19
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

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BINGO! While some analog components in older system designs could be potted (mast-top wind transducer, water speed paddlewheel, e.g.), most components of digital networks cannot. Digital components use chips and regulators that generate heat, and the heat must be rejected. Heat retention is a leading cause of premature failure.
Potting materials have much higher thermal conductance properties than does air. When we pot high power motor controllers the base form into which the PCB is laid into is an aluminum heat sink with fins on the lower none potted side that enable dissipation of heat into the ambient environment. Next to active air cooling or liquid cooling, potting electronics is the most effective way to keep the devices cool.

When potting a circuit board that uses surface-mount technology, low glass transition temperature (Tg) potting compounds such as polyurethane or silicone are used, because high Tg potting compounds may break solder bonds through solder fatigue as they harden and shrink at low temperatures. One needs to maintain thermal expansion / contraction compatibilities so as to avoid such being a failure of power electronic components. Low power electronics are not as subject to a lot of heat generation. We rarely have any issues with the drive side of our power electronics, the transistors carry the heavy loads and incur both switching and conduction losses and keeping those cool is critical for extending their life expectancy. Heat kills.
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Old 17-01-2019, 16:53   #20
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

A good word for the original B & G. My first boat, a 1969 Dufour Arpege, was fitted with B & G instruments when I bought her in 1992. From the look of them they had been specified by her first owner - I doubt they were standard equipment. The twin log impellers were somewhat vulnerable in placement and I ended up replacing the log as in the 'pre everything online and all sorts of parts on ebay' era it was too difficult to replace the impellers. The depth sounder had been supplemented with a Seafarer depth sounder by the owner previous to me. I used the Seafarer as my primary depth sounder as it read in metres whilst the B & G was in feet and fathoms. The Seafarer ran off a PP9 battery though it had an option for connecting to the boat's 12v supply. The B & G ran off AA batteries with no alternative possible. Both still worked perfectly - and remained the only depth sounders on the boat - when I sold her in 2013. The B & G must have been 43 years old by then.
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Old 17-01-2019, 17:07   #21
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

My understanding is that the only similarity between the old & new (Navico) B&G is the name, i.e. branding. The old stuff enjoys a solid rep but is now getting long in the tooth. The new stuff seems to have mixed reviews, with customer support even more "mixed."
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Old 17-01-2019, 18:01   #22
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

I would like to hear an opinion from Richard at Sea-Tech.
He is the Best go to guy on electronics.
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Old 17-01-2019, 18:25   #23
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

The real problem is not B & G but rather the corporate culture of NAVICO. They have no concern for customers beyond how much they can get from them for the incredibly poor support they provide for all their product lines: Simrad, B & G and Lowrance. Their warranty policies are ridiculous and their product development is a joke. I made the mistake of refitting with Northstar just after they purchased them ad was left high and dry in less than 6 months. iN MY OPINION THEIR BUSINESS ETHIC WILL HAVE THEM OUT OF BUSINESS WITHIN 2 YEARS AS THEIR REPUTATION SPREADS. Run, don't walk away from them. I had RAYMARINE AND i'LL REFIT WITH THEM NEXT.
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Old 17-01-2019, 18:27   #24
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyon View Post
Wow, does anybody have any thing good to say about B&G?
I have just this Wednesday past, purchased at a great expense almost every electronic instrument you can get for a cruising yacht, all B&G!
I am led to believe their product is amongst the best, afterall they sponsor and use their products in the Volvo Ocean Race, I would have considered that alone as proof of a good product. I spoke to Riley on La Vagabonde about his B&G instruments, he loves them.
My new instruments are being shipped to the shipyard as I speak. I so hope I haven't blown my savings on rubbish.
I guess time will tell!

Your reasons for believing in these products are marketing tactics. Read reviews and ask people that are out there using the products (and not youtube stars, but normal sailors). Stop buying crap because someone paid someone else to tell you to buy crap.
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Old 17-01-2019, 19:32   #25
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Iíve had the old B&G masthead system installed since 1998. Itís failed twice, both times by lightning strikes. The rest of the Hydra stuff has worked without problems except that one of the lightning strikes that took out one of the CPU boards. The user interface is clunky, even for its time, and the software in the original units was truly awful. But so far, itís mostly worked. Navico support is spotty. When helping other people solve problems, sometimes itís been very good and other times just awful. But Raymarine hasnít been any better overall. Sometimes it just takes patience, sometimes itís nasty email to the sales and management teams.
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Old 17-01-2019, 20:24   #26
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrimshaw4 View Post
The real problem is not B & G but rather the corporate culture of NAVICO. They have no concern for customers beyond how much they can get from them for the incredibly poor support they provide for all their product lines: Simrad, B & G and Lowrance. Their warranty policies are ridiculous and their product development is a joke. I made the mistake of refitting with Northstar just after they purchased them ad was left high and dry in less than 6 months. iN MY OPINION THEIR BUSINESS ETHIC WILL HAVE THEM OUT OF BUSINESS WITHIN 2 YEARS AS THEIR REPUTATION SPREADS. Run, don't walk away from them. I had RAYMARINE AND i'LL REFIT WITH THEM NEXT.
I dealt with a dealer who promised boat show/winter discounts then inflated the prices on most of the gear. Nice.
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Old 17-01-2019, 21:16   #27
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Yeah Navico stuff is a bit mixed, though I use it on my boat with a mixture of Simrad and B&G gear. The radar, autopilots and external GPSes are really good, the VHFs (esp the one I have, the V50/RS35) are kinda junk and everything else is in between.

They do support their older stuff still - my old NSS just got a firmware update to resolve a time issue. Trying to get in person support is pretty much a lost cause though.

The thing I really like about them and unlike Raymarine is that they play pretty nice with straight NK2 stuff and the simrad plugs are easy to snip off and replace with N2K ones - and it just works, meaning I can run a straight N2K backbone for my electronics.
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Old 17-01-2019, 22:22   #28
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyon View Post
Wow, does anybody have any thing good to say about B&G?
I have just this Wednesday past, purchased at a great expense almost every electronic instrument you can get for a cruising yacht, all B&G!
I am led to believe their product is amongst the best, afterall they sponsor and use their products in the Volvo Ocean Race, I would have considered that alone as proof of a good product. I spoke to Riley on La Vagabonde about his B&G instruments, he loves them.
My new instruments are being shipped to the shipyard as I speak. I so hope I haven't blown my savings on rubbish.
I guess time will tell!
I had two items (vhf and radar) that were dead on arrival from B&G. I didn't install them until after the warranty expired and was stuck with the broken parts (the VHF eventually got replaced). Their tech support is nonexistent, and no matter how high you go up the chain on emails, nothing gets returned.

I can't wait to move back to Raymarine (or Furuno or Garmin).


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Old 18-01-2019, 01:00   #29
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Very illuminating. B&G is getting shredded here. Glad I went with Garmin last year. (unless their warranty service works out as lackluster, too). At the time, it was down to Garmin vs. B&G.
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Old 18-01-2019, 17:26   #30
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Re: I humbly apologized to B&G for buying their products.

Scary thing is as suggested by the Fort Report on the destroyer Fitzpatrick collision the tech equipment on that vessel was similarly broken and not being relied upon. It's bad enough to have this junk on a ocean sailing vessel but on a US warship, wow.
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