Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-09-2011, 12:38   #16
Registered User
 
Capt.Don's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Altadena, CA
Boat: Tartan 3500
Posts: 612
Images: 1
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbank56 View Post
To transmit on the marine channels, you are required by FCC rules to use a radio that is certified under part 80 rules. Ham radio's do not have that certification. You can however, legally use a marine radio on the ham bands.

Eric
There are radios that are "unlocked" for both Marine SSB and HF, e.g., ICOM 802.
__________________

__________________
Capt.Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 12:52   #17
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Ham exams are easy, I studied for mine on the way into the exam in the car , I am a digital electronics engineer ( struggled with all those RF stuff in college) .

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 13:28   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ontario
Boat: Sandpiper 565, Tanzer 22
Posts: 287
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Hi:

When I was a boy, we had to walk uphill both directions to school and learn Morse code for our ham licence, AND WE LIKED IT.

(With apologies to SNL)

I got my licence a few months shy of my 15th birthday back in '77. Good chance I was the youngest ham in Canada for a few days that year. In the day, 10 WPM was required. The examining official passed me when I demonstrated a good solid ... 7WPM. No matter, I was likely over 10 before the month was out, and over 20 within a year. At my peak, I could send (with a keyer) and receive (in my head) 50 or 60.

Those were the days when radio was the technological and social magic that computers and the internet are today. I still have the crystal controlled transmitter I made, a 12BY7A oscillator feeding a 6146B final for what was it, 50 watts input power. My first receiver was a Heathkit HR-10B - piece of junk. I eventually saved up my paper route money and got a Heathkit SB-301 receiver. After a few years I had a matching SB-401 transmitter and the similar transceiver, but it's model number escapes me (SB-101 maybe?). Anyone here old enough to remember this stuff?

Funny story. My family was camping that summer, and of course I had to drag my equipment to the site and set up in my tent. Somebody complained. I assumed my transmitter was interfering with someone's TV reception, so I stopped transmitting, but continued to listen in on those far away signals in Morse code. I misunderstood. Turns out it was the acoustics that people had a problem with. Seems people don't like to listen to Morse when they are trying to sleep. We were invited to pack out at 2 AM. Dad wasn't pleased.

Boulter
__________________
Boulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 13:53   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Boat: Young Sun 35' Annapolis Mackinaw Cutter
Posts: 30
Images: 1
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Ah, the memories! My first rig was a Drake TR-4. Had it for a long time and always got compliments on the audio quality.

Use a Yaesu these days. No one comments on the audio quality anymore.

Oh, well... Nice not to have to change the tubes, I guess!

Fair winds,

Nick
__________________
Seadogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 14:35   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,006
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Ham radios transmit on different but nearly identical HF SSB freguencies to the Marine SSB radios. The two types of radios are nearly identical in design, however. Most Marine SSB radios can transmit on the Ham frequencies as well as the Marine frequencies but usually aren't optimized to tune through the bands like a Ham radio is or as easy to use once you are out of the Marine Channelized concept. The marine radios have some features to make them more immune to the damp salty marine environment but they aren't sealed or water proof. Personally, have had no problems with my two different Ham radios after many years on my boats.

Ham radios can be opened up to transmit on all frequencies including the Marine HF/SSB. It's usually a simple process of cutting a few wires or disabling a chip or two. On my ICOM 718 radio, it took a tech only a few minutes and $20 to open it up. It is not legal to transmit on other than Ham frequencies, except in an emergency, however. The reason claimed for this is the Ham radios are not subject to the frequency stability standards of the Marine Radios. That doesn't mean that the Ham radios aren't just as frequency stable as the Marine radios, just that they aren't tested and guaranteed to meet the requirements. I've heard from many reliable techies that modern Ham radios are just as frequency stable as the Marine radios. I'd be willing to bet that as far as the radio electronics, the ICOM 7200 Ham Radio is identical to the ICOM 802 Marine Radio under the cover. Don't know that for certain but the water sealing design of the front end of ICOM 802 is the same as for the ICOM 7200 and all the other radio specs seem to be identical except the channelization unique to marine radios.

The real question is why go with a Marine SSB?? The maritime mobile nets are almost exlusively on the Ham Frequencies. There's a whole bunch of talking on the Ham bands while there is precious little on the Marine bands. Sailmail works on Ham frequencies if you want a back up to Winlink and uses the same software. If the going gets down and dirty, you can use the marine frequencies on your opened up Ham Radio to contact the emergency responders. As they say, "Any fregquency in a Storm." I was ready to transmit with my ICOM 718 ham radio, AH4 antenna Tuner, Norseman backstay insulators, and copper foil ground plane for less than a boat unit ($1,000). When I priced out an ICOM 802 and tuner, it was over 2 boat units just that and I still had to do the installation. Even if I'd gone with the more costly state of the art ICOM 7200 ham radio, could have had it up and running for less than $1,600. Buy used equipment and you might be able to do it cheaper.

As far as getting the General Ham license, it's a piece of cake with the online tutorials. I studied for one day on line to pass the General License Exam. I'd done the Gordon West manual for the Tech license exam prior so had some carry over from that. Still, it wasn't a big thing to learn enough to pass the General Exam. I'm not an electrical genius by any stretch of the imagination. Never got beyond the water flowing through a pipe anology and still can't work my smart phone.

SSB stands for Single Side Band. It's a more efficient way of sending radio transmissions. Both ham and marine radios transmit in the HF 'High Frequency' radio spectrum. Marine radios have very limited numbered channels that correspond to a specific radio frequency. Ham radios tune through a range of radio frequencies. It's much like the difference in operation between a TV and an FM radio. They both use similar frequencies, it's just a different way of tuning them in. Most marine radios can transmit in the ham range, many are not ergonomically optimized to do it, however. See whats involved in tuning in the on the Ham band before you leap.

In Ham speak, you want a radio that is optimized for 40 and 20 meter frequencies. Actually, that's more an antenna system than a radio issue. In real life terms, that's 7mhz and 14mhz. 20 meters is a good frequency for daytime long range communication over many thousands of miles. 40 meters is good for daytime communications under a 1,000 miles and night time communications over longer distances. The marine bands use frequencies in the 80 meter range for the lower channels that aren't used all that much by the typical Ham equipped sailor.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 14:41   #21
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Ham radios transmit on different but nearly identical HF SSB freguencies to the Marine SSB radios. The two types of radios are nearly identical in design, however. Most Marine SSB radios can transmit on the Ham frequencies as well as the Marine frequencies but usually aren't optimized to tune through the bands like a Ham radio is or as easy to use once you are out of the Marine Channelized concept. The marine radios have some features to make them more immune to the damp salty marine environment but they aren't sealed or water proof. Personally, have had no problems with my two different Ham radios after many years on my boats.
Very Few proper marine HF units can be opened up to ham bands ( its technically ilegal). Some can be like the Icom.

There is many differences between HAM units and a marine SSB as far as the user is concerned. A ham radio setup incorrectly can render a marine channel unusable.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 16:18   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 718
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
I'd be willing to bet that as far as the radio electronics, the ICOM 7200 Ham Radio is identical to the ICOM 802 Marine Radio under the cover. Don't know that for certain but the water sealing design of the front end of ICOM 802 is the same as for the ICOM 7200 and all the other radio specs seem to be identical except the channelization unique to marine radios.
Not even close to being the same inside. The 802 is a two piece radio. The display and user controls are housed in the remote head which is not sealed at all. The 7200 does use gasketing in the front panel. No gaskets on the cover or behind the knobs of the 802. The 802 transceiver is mounted remotely and is totally different inside than the 7200. The transceiver unit has no water intrusion protection at all. Specs are different as well. Frequency stability is not the only issue. The biggest issue is that ham radio's don't meet the spurious emissions requirements of marine radio's. VFO versus channelization is another big difference. The 7200 has an adjustable speech compressor. The 802 has advertised speech compression but in fact this feature is turned off and can only be enable with software. With the compression on, the radio no longer meets regulations for spurious emissions. The 802 is known for it's low average talk power.

Eric
__________________
fairbank56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 16:54   #23
Registered User
 
svcambria's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mexico (currently)
Boat: Panda 40 - S/V Cambria
Posts: 573
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Communicator View Post
Hi,

I just wondered how many people have considered getting a Ham Radio licence to get HF SSB connectivity?

It seems there are plenty of places to help you get a licence for a lot less than the Regular long range marine license and the services available are quite extensive now with position reporting, ssb net's and email.

Has anyone done it and found it successful or need some help?

What's your experience?.

Maybe I can help

Vic
Amateur radio on boats is as common as grass in Latin America - for nets, weather, email, just calling up someone to say hi. One needs a ham license, usually general class or higher.
You can get a lot of weather and web info on Winlink with a Pactor modem, and that service is free, courtesy of a lot of amateur station operators around the world.
I use it all the time.
Americans do not need a ship's radio license or a radio-telephone operator's license if in the US, but outside the US you do need the ship's license to (legally) operate a VHF, and you need the operator's license to use a marine ssb anywhere.
Ham is HF SSB and it is unfortunate that many people confuse that with marine channelized HF SSB.

Michael
K9YE

I'm not sure I need help in this area, but definitely do in others...
__________________
svcambria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2011, 18:56   #24
Registered User
 
Bob on OTTER's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 98
Ken wood TS-50S ham rig installed at OTTER's NAV station. 50 watts to a 20m homemade dipole hauled aloft on a spare halyard works great. Been ham since a kid in 1971... Great hobby ashore, great companion and source of connectivity afloat. US FCC license easy, cheap...highly recommended. Bob K4RCG.
__________________
Bob on OTTER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2011, 07:49   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cambridge MD
Boat: Carter offshore 35
Posts: 333
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

I was searching for Marine radios when I found the Yeasu vx1700 being used and advertised as a Marine radio outside the US. As I searched more I learned that the VX 1700 was not available in the US. Now it is sold as a VX1700E not for sale in the US or a VX1700US that is. With all the different reasons for the differences between Marine and Ham where does the come in?
__________________
DeborahLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2011, 09:15   #26
Registered User
 
Rhapsody-NS27's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA, boat: Deale, MD
Boat: 1981 Nor'sea 27
Posts: 1,409
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Deborah,
There are different versions of radios used for other countries. The radio spectrum is split up into regions and not all the Ham bands are the same for each region.
__________________
Daniel - Rhapsody Blog,
“A sailor’s joys are as simple as a child’s.” — Bernard Moitessier
"I don't need therapy, I just need my boat"
Rhapsody-NS27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2011, 10:23   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeborahLee View Post
I was searching for Marine radios when I found the Yeasu vx1700 being used and advertised as a Marine radio outside the US. As I searched more I learned that the VX 1700 was not available in the US. Now it is sold as a VX1700E not for sale in the US or a VX1700US that is. With all the different reasons for the differences between Marine and Ham where does the come in?
My guess is that the us version has been modified to not do the Marine bands. In all likelyhood there's an easy fix.... and it's probably on the internet! It's kind of like buying an AK-47 in the US. You can legally get one, but they are modified to operate only in semi automatic mode. The fix to return it to full automatic is widely available.... or so I hear....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2011, 11:05   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,335
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Very Few proper marine HF units can be opened up to ham bands ( its technically ilegal). Some can be like the Icom.

There is many differences between HAM units and a marine SSB as far as the user is concerned. A ham radio setup incorrectly can render a marine channel unusable.

Dave

Not so fast, Dave.

1. Most Marine HF units can listen on the USB ham bands, and it is not illegal. Not all have LSB capability.

2. ANY radio can render a marine channel unusable. It doesn't matter if the boat anchored next to you is using ham or marine SSB, if he starts cranking up the Pactor, you aren't going to hear the morning net. Spurious emissions occur on both radios, and its just a matter of level.

3. ITU marine 'channels' are not always used in the real world. A lot of the time I hear foreign language on the SSB, its on some frequency about 1 khz off the ITU assigned channel.

4. The most common event that renders a marine SSB channel unusable is that someone else is talking on it. That doesn't stop a lot of people from trying to talk at the same time.

5. Yes, Ham radios are different. They have user-controllable filters which can improve reception
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2011, 11:37   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: BVI
Boat: Leopard 45, 45 feet, Jet Stream
Posts: 84
Send a message via Skype™ to Tim Schaaf
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Furuno have long made a very nice HF transceiver that works on both Ham and SSB bands, legally. I have heard Ham's say they don't like it because it lacks a tuning knob like Ham radios, and only has buttons, but this is incorrect. It does have a tuning knob, only it is a much smaller one than most Ham sets, so perhaps it is overlooked. You can also tune it using the buttons.

I still have my 1502 which I bought in 1992. It is a very nice radio. I think the current model might be the 1503. Furuno have never pushed these radios, and I think they only make them to make an "all Furuno" bridge possible. Most repair shops rate the Furuno well higher than the Icoms, Yaesus, Kenwoods, etc. etc. etc.

SSB seems to be the choice on the East Coast, but Ham used to be the first choice in the Pacific. Don't really know how that plays out now, but it has always been worthwhile to get a Ham license, no matter where you are. And, with no code requirement.........
__________________
Tim Schaaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2011, 11:37   #30
Registered User
 
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 1,793
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
Re: HF SSB Ham Radio Option

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeborahLee View Post
This seems to refer to a Ham setting up an amature station on a comerical vessel. Since I am the Master of my vessel and it is a recreational vessel and the ham rig is recreational and it is also my home why can't the ham and marine bands be on the same radio? Most of the recreational electronics are combined such as GPS and Chart Plotter. It would not interfear with the operationsor safty of the vessel as I am the Master.
I think if you read the introductory material you'll see that most of the requirements only apply to stations that are required on particular ships. Most do not apply to voluntary installations, so you can legally use a marine radio on ham radio frequencies.

You may not use a ham radio for non-emergency traffic on marine frequencies in any installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbank56 View Post
To transmit on the marine channels, you are required by FCC rules to use a radio that is certified under part 80 rules. Ham radio's do not have that certification. You can however, legally use a marine radio on the ham bands.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Sailmail works on Ham frequencies if you want a back up to Winlink and uses the same software.
Sailmail operates on commercial marine frequencies, not Ham frequencies.
__________________

__________________
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hf radio, radio, ssb

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SSB or SatPhone ? catamannie Navigation 194 27-11-2016 03:02
Marine SSB Radios Used for Ham Radio Capt.Don Marine Electronics 48 16-01-2014 08:52
Ham on a Budget drew23 Marine Electronics 61 21-09-2011 17:30
Opinions of Non-HAM Sailors Solicited canucksailor General Sailing Forum 64 27-07-2011 20:54



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.