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Old 09-06-2008, 19:53   #1
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Help with my PC

Just spent a few bucks on a new HP lap-top... and the programs I've had with my mapping C-Map and my photo and video editing is not compatable with "VISTA".
New programs are NOT avalable like the ones I have so I went out and bought a XP-Pro to convert the lap-top.
Tried to down-load it and it wont take the XP-Pro and it says I cant replace a new version with an old one......
Was thinking of yanking out the hard-drive and replacing it and with a new unit and then using XP-Pro...Any thoughts on that?
And another guy here on the dock said I should be able to use a remote Hard-drive and swich back and forth...
Someone, Please Help................
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Old 09-06-2008, 20:00   #2
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If you REALLY want to install XP, format the drive (should be one of the options in setup). I think the part your getting messed up on is you need to boot off the XP cd (have the CD in the drive, reboot your computer and it should boot off the CD- blue old school looking screens etc.). When prompted say delete this or that, format etc. It's slightly advanced.

If you just popping in the CD while Vista is running I'm guessing that is where the issue comes into play.

You can get really funky and install a virtual machine and run XP there and Vista as your host OS. Being your doing photo/video editing it might not be doable due to grapgical limitations.

Check with the software manfactures as there should be a work around.
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Old 09-06-2008, 20:14   #3
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If you want to install XP over Vista you have to boot from a CD then format over the top of the existing O/S.

You then need a full version of an PX release CD with a key code to activate it.

Personally, I prefer Vista but if the software won't run it's not for you. I do this for a living and you need what you need. The hard drive has to be formatted before the install you get the option in XP or Vista at the very start when you boot from a CD. There is not adding PX after Vista with what you have.

replacing the hard drive is not required and actually is the same install. A new hard drive requires formatting and you select the option in the same screen. This it right after you boot from the CD. It's where the screen is still blue with white text.
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Old 09-06-2008, 20:31   #4
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Ok, I think Ive got it now, was reading the setups for a blank hard-drive and it makes sence....now...thanks
Now another question and I'm sure you can answer this Paul.
If I pick up another Hard-drive and put the XP-Pro on it, Can I keep the vista on this one and switch back in the future if I have a need to...
I dont have anything against this one but my C-Map program is a world map and cost mucho-bucks a few years ago.. I'm also running an old version of Photoshop 7 that I really like, and an older version of "MOVIE" edit pro which they no longer make.
neither of these programs will install into vista.. I'm even having problems with with my "RAW" photos in the nikon program for my D2X.. and because the newer version is a D3X, I'm working WITH the past...
Have you got any other suggestions?
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Old 09-06-2008, 20:57   #5
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If your software won't run and you don't want or can't update then get the XP Service Pack 3 and be happy. The dual install takes a few tricks. You need to start with XP then install Vista to another drive. That way you can get a boot menu and switch between them at boot time. I did it for a while. It works fine but if you can't use Vista for the things you really run all the time then maintaining it is a chore you don't need.

If you need a cruising setup then you have to start with something and stick with it or upgrade all the way. Better to limit the things you have to deal with given this isn't an area you are strong in. I would do it different but this is an area I do all the time. It's easy for me to adapt with PC software. If you like to do that then fine but if if you don't do it now will you later on? I'm not sure what the real goals are with this new setup so it's really hard to pin down the issues you have.

You obviously need your navigation program for just a few mostly really important reasons. How complicated do you want to bite off? It's all possible. You'll need two partitions and the first must be XP then add Vista after XP is running and set it to the other partition. That way you can boot between the two. The hitch is that the C: drive is the boot drive. Lose C: and you lose the other one too.

Since you own both O/S's you could but you just doubled the overhead and issues and cut back on the disk space. Examine the trade offs to see what you might get and the extra chores you may get in return.

If my navigation didn't work under Vista I would drop Vista quick. Some stuff matters more than others.
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:40   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Ok, I think Ive got it now, was reading the setups for a blank hard-drive and it makes sence....now...thanks
Now another question and I'm sure you can answer this Paul.
If I pick up another Hard-drive and put the XP-Pro on it, Can I keep the vista on this one and switch back in the future if I have a need to...
I dont have anything against this one but my C-Map program is a world map and cost mucho-bucks a few years ago.. I'm also running an old version of Photoshop 7 that I really like, and an older version of "MOVIE" edit pro which they no longer make.
neither of these programs will install into vista.. I'm even having problems with with my "RAW" photos in the nikon program for my D2X.. and because the newer version is a D3X, I'm working WITH the past...
Have you got any other suggestions?
I agree with what Pblais says, but I think he missed your question. Can you get a new hard drive, install XP on it, then swap drives for the OS you want to run? Yes. You can also use a thumb drive to store something on from XP and then use in Vista, and vice-versa. I think you will find it anoying, but it's a way to keep all your disk space and be able to play with Vista. When you eventually find all the programs you need to run under Vista, you could just migrate that way.

Remember, the connections for the hard drive on most laptops are not designed for repeatedly unplugging/plugging. I'd limit this swapping for experimenting and try to run all important stuff all on one OS.

-dan
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:48   #7
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Not being familiar with Vista, I have a question. Does it not have a compatibility mode that certain software can be run as XP compatible? Just as XP had when they switched from Windows98.
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Old 10-06-2008, 13:08   #8
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Quote:
Does it not have a compatibility mode that certain software can be run as XP compatible? Just as XP had when they switched from Windows98.
It does but 90% of the probelms are with the installation. MSoft changed the rules back in WinXP but they failed to make them mandatory. You didn't have to follow them. lots of programmers didn't because they didn't have to. So it now limits you to not installaing data files into the ProgramFiles directory unless you turn off all the security. You can do that and get back some parity but the better security does help avoid other problems that are more serious. the newer malware and some of even the adware is getting too smart and too destructive. Putting up some hard barriers isreally the only alternative.

You can still have other problems but mostly it is that the new security is on by default. It also means you don't have to run as an Administrator like some applications required. That sets you up for virus attacks and other stuff that uses your logon to do what ever it wants.

The bigger changes are in video drivers so that effects all video application. It's totally redone. They really tried to get all the device drivers out of the lowest level of the O/S since they run under the radar security too at that level. Basically fixing all the WinXP security problems forced a lot of changes that keeps some software from running. With a change in installation most program application that don't rely on hardware do run. All my appllication I've written all work but needed new installations and I now have to staore the data oin places other than the install directory and I don't use registry settings as much as before either.

It's not hard to make most applications compliant but you need to do a few things to make it happen. even though they are already talking about the next Windows in 2009, it's mostly based on the new 2008 kernal enhancements and some other new things that were based on technology from Vista. WinXp is basically dead now and it really won't be getting any more money put into it though it may get a longer EOL (end of life) basd on the rumblings.

I'm generally pleased with it. I lost a few old program I had used but now have some newer things that are better. Most popular products have a Vista release now. I never liked WinXp very much. I was stuck in Windows 2000 for a very long time and it worked for most things fine.

I can see if you have some expensive investments in special application like a full featured navigation suite and you really don't want to upgrade now.
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Old 10-06-2008, 14:01   #9
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1. You can do a clean as opposed to an upgrade install of XP Pro by starting it in Vista, ie. you do not have to boot from the CD. Regardless of how you do it, a clean install will kill Vista.

2. You can create a dual install of XP and Vista on the same partition, but this is clunky, not recommended, and requires creative account management.

3. You could use an XP CD to partition the existing drive into a C: and D: drive and then create an easily managed dual install of XP and Vista, but your laptop may not have come with a Vista installation CD. I would not try this if my only access to Vista was some HP recovery process. As others have pointed out, you cannot install 2 hard drives in a laptop. So swappable HDs may be you best alternative. Also, if you only have an XP Pro Upgrade version, you will need to supply a full version CD for some other MS OS in order to install it on a virgin hard drive.
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Old 10-06-2008, 14:33   #10
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So the rumors that you can buy a computer with Vista and roll it back to XP in Vista is not true and the only way to get XP on the computer is to have the XP operating system and install it?
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Old 10-06-2008, 15:14   #11
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Yes, although some manufacturers will let you order a computer with XP instead of Vista for the same price.
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Old 10-06-2008, 15:34   #12
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"roll it back to XP in Vista "
Not quite, Chuck. Since there's no XP "in" Vista, you can't "roll it back" by any means. However, many computers that ship with Vista ship with a downgrade license and a set of factory restore discs that can be used to NUKE the computer totally and then load it with XP instead of Vista. That's what Microsoft's licensing division actually insists on, the OEMs are no longer allowed to ship vista "recovery" discs, the new owner has to MAKE them after taking possession. (You can't make this stuff up!)

There are also restrictions (and sometimes ways past them) as to installing "upgrade" or "OEM" versions of software as opposed to the full retail versions. You can't just mix and match everything.

RANDY-
CHECK WITH HP. It is possible that your Vista computer came with the XP downgrade/recovery discs, and that you can use those to easily wipe it out and make it into an XP machine with full driver support from HP.

Vista can be a 8itch to get used to, but I find the longer I work with it the more I come to appreciate subtle (and sometimes invisible) changes in it. In the meantime...something has made my Vista machine about as stable as a house of straw, and if I didn't know better...I'd swear vVsta was junk. Apparently there are some ways that printer suites (HP) and certain software (Adobe, Huappauge) can get into it and really fubar the system, despite all the "security and stability" features.

It has been possible, and relatively easy, to run multiple MS OSes on the same computer. In order to do this STABLY the installation sequence is critical, generally you must install the oldest OS first, and then add each newer one. NT supports multiple booting by default, so from NT4, NT5 (Windows2000) NT5.1 (XP), a couple of other 5.x versions, and NT6 (Vista) there's full support for multi-booting, although it often helps to read the support docs on the MS web site and other places to get it right the first time. As always there may be gotchas along the way, like installing service packs or hardware support for devices, and putting OSes on different partitions or in different directory names.
Like poker--its an easy game. I'm sure Paul will confirm that.<G>

If your software absolutely can't run under Vista (and it an take some real sleuthing to find out the truth about this, many vendors either don't know or lie and ask you to buy new products instead) then by all means--you need to blow it away for XP. XP ain't a bad product, the core code is now eight years old and that's time enough to get most of the bugs out!<G>
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Old 10-06-2008, 17:37   #13
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Old 10-06-2008, 19:28   #14
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Old 10-06-2008, 23:34   #15
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I'm wondering if there is a way he could image, or otherwise back up the Vista installation. Then format the drive and create 2 partitions. Install XP first, on the first partition, then unpack Vista onto the second. Could a dual boot be created that way? Or some variation on that?
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