HAM, Marine SSB, Other?

[Sunspot Baby]

My ICOM is type certified but is capable of operating on both marine SSB and HAM freqs. Yes, I did not mention the restricted radio telephone operators permit. My oops.

I am HAM licensed and do know people who use HAM rigs that have marine station and operators licenses and use them on both. In short they are fully licensed. Their rigs are just not type certified. They could not, for instance, push a button for automatic distress call nor are they DSC capable. Interestingly, older SSB rigs do not have these capabilities either.

I was trying to point out that you don't have to choose between SSB and HAM, one can have both with the same rig. Filling out a form and a few $$ is all it takes to get the station and operator licenses. Getting a HAM General ticket is a lot more work even if they have dropped the code requirement.

George
KI4TWO

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

For a long while, and I think it is still the case, you didn't even need a station license to operate marine SSB in U.S. waters, it was only when you went international.

You seem to be confused about the licensing requirements. Your information is incorrect.

If your Icom is certified for marine use, that's ok. You can use it for either marine or ham frequencies. If you want to be legal, then you do have to make a choice. Either marine SSB, which you can also use for HAM, or HAM which you cannot legally use for marine SSB. Just because "people do it" doesn't make it right. Marine SSB's are held to a much higher technical standard than HAM radio's. You could well be interfering with other's on the marine frequencies when your signal is splattering all over the place from you HAM rig. Some HAM rigs are quite stable and clean but there are no guarantees. But if your able to break one rule, then where do you draw the line? It's your choice.

Eric

[btrayfors]

George,

Eric is right, in all respects.

Additionally, to my knowledge it has never been the case that you could use a marine SSB set in U.S. or international waters without a station license.

I think you're confusing SSB (i.e., HF on the marine bands) with VHF. It is true that a few years ago the FCC changed the rules for VHF sets, i.e., you don't need a license for them if you only use them in U.S. waters.

Bill

[Sunspot Baby]

You'll note the quote in Eric's message is not in my post. I did remove it by editing after hitting the send key. It was Operator License and not station license that was not needed.

Using a non type rated radio is breaking a rule, so is motoring on a large sail boat without showing the proper day shape. So is motoring while showing the tri-color at the mast, so is etc.

Every one I know, with the possible exceptions of Bill and Eric breaks some rule in a minor way on a regular basis. I say again, I am properly licensed in both SSB and HAM. It is possible to have both, one does not need to choose. One can buy a used HAM capable SSB about as easily as a used HAM rig.

I yield the moral high ground to those without sin.

George

[Pblais]

Some of the FCC license procedures are now much easier and they really never did change much just how you got them. For one fee and a FCC Form 605 you get all together the following goodies:

VHF International License
EPIRB registration
MMSI International ID (not what you get from Boat US)
Radio Station license
SSB Operators license

As of last February the fee is about $160 and you can file and pay online and get the paper license in a few weeks. You only get one piece of paper with everything on it. HAM operation is a second application as well as the required exam certification.

Note! You have to be a US citizen to get any of this. You would add HAM certification after you complete the Form 605. You can't add that in the same application form. There are other commercial licenses that apply to those conducting commercial activities but for recreational use this is all there is in the US. Having this will for the most part be accepted internationally. There may be other local (non US)regulations that apply however.

The above package is the same price no matter how many of the above you need or don't need. So for SSB you get everything in one application. Amending the application is FREE! There is no reason not to be totally legal unless you care to be totally illegal and save $160. The only thing you can slide with is operating illegally on HAM frequencies. Most HAM operators won't give you a warm welcome.

[fairbank56]

Well George, that's a pretty pathetic way of justifying breaking the law. I wonder why you even went to the trouble of getting a station license in the first place...or even register your vessel for that matter. Don't get caught using that ham rig on the marine bands. The FCC levies some pretty hefty fines for lawbreakers.

Eric

[Sunspot Baby]

I will say again, I am fully compliant. My ICOM 802 is an approved Marine SSB with HAM capabilities. I have station license, operator license, and HAM General. I do know of cruisers using their HAM rigs (non type certified for marine SSB) on marine SSB. I have no idea how they got their station license with a HAM rig, but they do not have two HF radios on board and the one they use is a commercially available HAM rig that will operate on just about any freq you can imagine, upper or lower SSB. Pathetic or not, I don't find their infraction worthy of a rant.

Rather than continue a P****ng match, you may fire the last shot, I will not counter. You are of course dead right.

George

[hellosailor]

Gentlemen, I think you are confusing the issues.

Some of the ICOM radios---like George's-- are fully certified and compliant for both Marine HF and Amateur radio. The *radio* itself is legal for both services.

Note that *any* radio may legally be used as a ham radio, by a licensed ham operator, the only FCC regulation on ham radios now is that those radios which are sold in commerce, intended for ham use, must be certified for that use. (Certified or type accepted, I forget which is the current term and which the obsolete one but there's no difference from the operators point of view.)

It is the responsibility of the ham to make sure whatever s/he is operating, meets the emissions requirements of amateur radio--regardless of how it was sold. Most would simply trust the dual-purpose ICOMs to work as ICOM claims they do.

However, there's one other "gotcha" left. IIRC the FCC requires a marine SSB radio installation to be totally separate and isolated from any and all other radios on the vessel. That means, no shared radio, no shared antenna, no shared nothing, so to speak.

And it is this last point that most ham sailors ignore, for the simple reason that it does no harm to anyone else if they choose to ignore it. The FCC doesn't care much either, as long as you don't do something flagrant in front of someone who is legally charged with enforcing it otherwise. That's the bottom line: Pay the extortionate marine license fee, be discreet, be practical, and create NO HARMFUL INTERFERENCE.

That's all the FCC cares about it, and beyond that, it is all anyone needs to stick their nose into.

In point of fact, many commercial fishing boats used Drake ham radios in the 60's and 70's instead of marine SSBs. The FCC knew all about it, they could recognize the "clearer" audio. They didn't give a damn--because those radios were built to the highest standards of the time, for the government/military market, and it did no harm if the boats way offshore were using them.

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

I will say again, I am fully compliant. My ICOM 802 is an approved Marine SSB with HAM capabilities.

That's fine, but my response was because you said it was ok to use a ham radio on the marine bands which it is not. I don't think you should post on a forum to everyone that it is ok to do that. Just want to be clear on that point. If it's ok for us all to just ignore the law, then we can just put all the marine SSB dealer's out of business. We can just install our ham rigs, don't bother with a marine station license and operate on frequencies for any licensed service we want.

I have no idea how they got their station license with a HAM rig,

Because the license is for the station, not the radio. You don't have to own a radio to get a license to use one.

Eric

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Gentlemen, I think you are confusing the issues.

George is the only one who is confused on this issue

However, there's one other "gotcha" left. IIRC the FCC requires a marine SSB radio installation to be totally separate and isolated from any and all other radios on the vessel. That means, no shared radio, no shared antenna, no shared nothing, so to speak.

Actually, the rule you are refering to isn't about the marine SSB. The rule is under part 97 Amateur Radio Service:

97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.

(b) The station must be separate from and independent of all other radio apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft, except a common antenna may be shared with a voluntary ship radio installation....

This rule was written primarily for sea-going ships to keep the radio operators from using their equipment on the amateur bands. It's an old rule but it does bring up an interesting contradiction with the way the M802 is marketed. You'll notice that the dealer's advertise this rig as Marine SSB/HAM but Icom does not.

There's also a rule under part 80 Stations in the maritime services
80.89 Unauthorized transmissions
Stations must not:
(f) Transmit on frequencies or frequency bands not authorized on the current station license.

Eric

[hellosailor]

Thanks for clearing that up, Eric.

[Sunspot Baby]

"It's an old rule but it does bring up an interesting contradiction with the way the M802 is marketed. You'll notice that the dealer's advertise this rig as Marine SSB/HAM but Icom does not."

This is from ICOM web site:

"Transmit: IC-M802 includes HF HAM RADIO TRANSMIT & RECEIVE. Appropriate HAM license required to transmit on amateur radio frequencies"

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

This is from ICOM web site:

"Transmit: IC-M802 includes HF HAM RADIO TRANSMIT & RECEIVE. Appropriate HAM license required to transmit on amateur radio frequencies"

Can you provide a link for that?

[GordMay]

Excerpted from:
IC-M802 All new digital SSB with remoteable control head offers the clearest reception ever.

·100% E-mail ready, with one touch button access on the front panel. A SSB first! No filters required.
·Receive 500 kHz - 29.9999 MHz
·Monitor all 976 ITU voice and data channels, HAM bands and aircraft WX
·1355 channels
·Transmit: IC-M802 includes HF HAM RADIO TRANSMIT & RECEIVE. Appropriate HAM license required to transmit on amateur radio frequencies.
·160 programmable memory channels, each identified by either alpha characters, channel number or frequency
·GPS interface port, NMEA 0183 version 2.0 => version 2.0 or later. Turn your IC-M802 into a long-range GMDSS emergency service radio
·Multiple scanning modes

[Sunspot Baby]

See IC-M802 All new digital SSB with remoteable control head offers the clearest reception ever.

George