HAM, Marine SSB, Other?

[btrayfors]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

Well, it doesn't change the certification, it changes the configuration. I'm curious about that rig. Iv'e seen the FT-600 version (amateur radio configuration) which only transmits on ham freq's. Do you have one in the marine configuration? Does it have the FCC part 80 identifier label on it? Can it readily operate on ham as well or do you have to change the configuration plug? If you have a system 600, does it come with the configuration plugs and is it actually certified for all 3 configurations...i.e. FCC label?

Eric

From the Yaesu System 600 Dealer's Manual, page 1:





Be happy to send the complete manual in PDF if you wish. Also have the Service Manual.

Great little rig. Have one on my boat, and have had about 10 of them pass thru here over the years. Does a good job with the digital modes, too.

Bill

[fairbank56]

Thanks, but I already have the manuals. They, nor you have answered my questions though.

Eric

[btrayfors]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

Thanks, but I already have the manuals. They, nor you have answered my questions though.

Eric

From page 23 in the Dealer's Manual:



The radio comes with a single configuration key. Dealers are warned to be very careful about passing out keys to unauthorized individuals.

I don't know if the radio has an FCC sticker...it's on my boat. I assume it does, or did, since Yaesu marketed this radio in the U.S. and certainly would not have done so had they not had the proper FCC "certifications".

Note that there is an ITU memory suppression procedure.

My radio has the ITU marine frequencies, and is open to all HF frequencies.

Note that when in the marine configuration certain functions are available which are not in other modes, including 2182 and alarm via two buttons on the faceplate. In the amateur config, these buttons change bands up and down.

Bill

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

You cannot legally transmit on a part 80 radio outside of it's intended marine channels unless the radio is already capable of doing so as is from the manufacturer...

That's your interpretation. Others read the very same rules and come to a completely different conclusion. If, in fact, your interpretation is correct, then you should be able to point to some sort of corroboration by the FCC. Either a published "clarification" of the rules (and isn't the fact that they sometimes have to publish clarifications a clear indication that the rules are badly written to begin with?), or some legal action that they have taken against someone. I have searched for either of these things and have found nothing.

Do you have any corroborating evidence to support your interpretation? Has the FCC ever prosecuted anyone for using a part 80 radio in the amateur service? If not, then I have to conclude that the others are correct, and you are not.

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Do you have any corroborating evidence to support your interpretation?

It's not my interpretation, it's clearly written in the rules that I have already quoted. 80.89, 80.1165 and 97.11

Has the FCC ever prosecuted anyone for using a part 80 radio in the amateur service? If not, then I have to conclude that the others are correct, and you are not.

Great way to come to a conclusion.

I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't operate their marine SSB on the ham bands, just correcting those that claim it is not against the rules. I can't tell you how many requests Iv'e had for instructions and software to "open" and simplify ham operation on the Icom M710. I don't provide the software, but do happily provide the procedure for them. I personally see nothing wrong with voluntary stations doing this even though it's against the rules. I say give people the straight dope and let them decide for themselves what they want to do.

Eric

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

It's not my interpretation, it's clearly written in the rules that I have already quoted. 80.89, 80.1165 and 97.11




Eric

Part 80.89, 80.1165 and Part 97 rules are not applicable as each is clearly intended to address issues you guys are not discussion. What may be relevant is Part 80.203(a) which states in part"

"Each transmitter authorized in a station in the maritime services after September 30, 1986, except as indicated in paragraphs (g), (h) and (i) of this section, must be certificated by the Commission for part 80 operations."

I didn't bother to ascertain the definition of what constitutes "maritime services" and whether it includes private vessels not for hire.

Frankly, this is one of those academic arguments which seems to pervade this forum as no one would ever be prosecuted for proper use of a commercial type accepted radio in amateur service. The issue you are debating is absurd on it's face.

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Again, just because a radio has been type-accepted for a particular service -- maritime, aeronautical, or whatever --

--- DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY PLACE IT IN THAT SERVICE --

--- nor does it mean that the radio must be used ONLY in that service.

According to FCC rules part 1, the definition of a radio station is "a separate transmitter for carrying on a radio communications service." and also according to part 1, "Stations in the Wireless Radio Services must be used and operated only in accordance with the rules applicable to their particular service as set forth in this title and with a valid authorization granted by the Commission under the provisions of this part"

Transmitters certified for only part 80 are only for use in the maritime service, not the amateur radio service.

Pursuant to the Commission's Forfeiture Policy Statement and Section 1.80 of the Rules, the base forfeiture amount for operating radio transmitting equipment on an unauthorized frequency is $4,000.

I easily found several FCC NOTICE OF APPARENT LIABILITY FOR FORFEITURE notice's on the FCC's enforcement bureau website for operating transmitting equipment on unauthorized frequencies. Some of the fines are quite substantial.

Trying to find specific violation notices is like looking for a needle in a haystack as the database is not readily searchable. Whether there are any involving transmitting a marine radio on ham freq's is unlikely in my opinion since doing so is unlikely to cause any interference problems that anyone would complain about. Many of us do it including myself, but it's still clearly against the rules

Eric

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

It's not my interpretation, it's clearly written in the rules...

Obviously it is not as clear as you would like to imagine. What is quite clear, though, is that the majority of others here--who have read the very same rules (yes, we can read, too)--have come to a different conclusion.

You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want. You are also free to be absolutely certain that we are all wrong and that you are the only one who knows the "real" rules. Meanwhile, absent the least little bit of corroborating evidence to the contrary, I will continue to use my modified, part 80 certified radio, on the amateur frequencies, in full confidence that I am not violating any FCC rules.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

I easily found several FCC NOTICE OF APPARENT LIABILITY FOR FORFEITURE notice's...

Of course. I found a lot of such notices too, in my searching. What I did NOT find was even one such notice in a case where a licensed ham had modified a certified radio for use in the amateur service. Not one.

Every day hams openly--even proudly--use certified radios (with a variety of certifications, not just part 80) that they have modified for use in the amateur service. After all, experimentation of this type, and the learning that comes with it, is exactly what the amateur service is all about. And not a single one has ever gotten any kind of warning or notification as far as I can tell.

As Arsenio Hall used to say, "Things that make you go, hmmmmm."

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You are also free to be absolutely certain that we are all wrong and that you are the only one who knows the "real" rules.

Only one person in this thread of 173 post's has claimed that it is legal to transmit on ham frequencies with a marine radio. Many have said that it is "ok", including me, "If your Icom is certified for marine use, that's ok. You can use it for either marine or ham frequencies." Most user's are ok with it, but that doesn't make it legal.

Eric

[conachair]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

Only one person in this thread of 173 post's has claimed that it is legal to transmit on ham frequencies with a marine radio. Many have said that it is "ok", including me, "If your Icom is certified for marine use, that's ok. You can use it for either marine or ham frequencies." Most user's are ok with it, but that doesn't make it legal.

Eric

A UK full ham license allows you to transmit up to 400w on *any* radio (so long as you don't bother anyone else) so absolutely no legal issues using an opened up marine ssb for ham frequencies here, you can do whatever you want. Is the US ham license not similar?

[SoonerSailor]

Clearly FCC regulations are not a perfectly coherent and internally consistent whole. Just like with laws passed by legislative bodies, gray areas could be subject to judicial interpretation if the matter were brought to a head and we the people usually dont know in advance on what side of an issue the decision will hang.

I see this issue the same way. Arguments can be made on both sides. If it were important the rules would be clarified - one side or the other - but it isnt an important issue and it hasnt been brought to adjudication, so there is at present no "absolute" answer.

Nothing wrong with making the arguments though!

[videobear]

Eric,

It IS legal to use a marine SSB transmitter on the amateur radio bands...for a licensed amateur radio operator! In this case, as many others have pointed out to you, it is not the marine radio regulations that apply, but the amateur radio regulations.

What is NOT legal:
- An operator with only a marine operator's license, transmitting on the amateur bands (with ANY radio, marine, ham, or homebrew kludge)
- Operating a non-marine certified radio (such as a ham radio) on the marine frequencies (by anyone, marine or ham operator)
- Modifying a marine radio to operate on the ham bands (by anyone), and then using it to transmit on the marine bands. (An exception: the radio is designed and type certified to operate in this fashion by the manufacturer))

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by fairbank56

According to FCC rules part 1,

Given the absurdity of the argument and when viewed myopically as some dubious limitation only applicable to a tiny fraction of the world (hams who have boats only under jurisdiction of a U.S. regulatory agency), the value of this debate can be considered an academic exercise at best.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by conachair

A UK full ham license allows you to transmit up to 400w on *any* radio (so long as you don't bother anyone else) so absolutely no legal issues using an opened up marine ssb for ham frequencies here, you can do whatever you want. Is the US ham license not similar?

Yes, the U.S. ham license is exactly the same. Any radio at all, even a certified Marine SSB radio that has been modified. Perfectly legal and within the rules, despite what you might read from some other poster.