Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-03-2013, 08:04   #121
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
I've had many radios and built myself many more than that. In the end, besides the Icom marine radios that many also have, these are my final choice:

1. Kenwood TS480-HX. I added the voice module.
a. SGC SG230 Smart tuner.
b. long wire antenna (hoist with halyard)

2. Kenwood TM-D710 dual band.
a. Green Light Labs GPS module
b. Mobile dual band 2m/70cm
(has internal TNC)

3. Kenwood TH-D72 dual band handheld (2x)
(these handhelds have internal GPS and TNC)

I have slightly modified the dual banders to expand their TX to their tech limits :whistle:

With these you can do amazing things. Example: I can take a handheld (VHF & UHF) out with the dingy and sit on a deserted beach and then decide to tune in to the HF (!!) cruisers net. I put it in SkyCommand mode which initiates contact with the D710 aboard. The 710 is wired to the TS480. Duplex communications are established using both 2m and 70cm bands while the TNC uses packet mode for a digital link which allows me to enter the HF frequency to set theTS480 to etc. I can not just listen, but also talk on the SSB net. This is actually allowed when the cruisers net is on a HAM band...

Or.. I want to use a handheld marine VHF but have enormous range. I put the D710 in cross-band repeater mode (UHF with the handheld and VHF on the marine band) and my handheld on the chosen UHF frequency. I normally add some DCS for locking out other pirates from using the repeater, and now my little handheld is on the VHF with a masthead antenna and 50+ Watts. Not that I would do this of-course as it is not allowed.

The possibilities are endless and this gear is top notch... the price reflects that unfortunately, but it's a steal compared to marine grade gear.
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 08:19   #122
Registered User
 
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 1,793
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
Re: Ham License

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Hmmm. Well, I have one other regulatory problem -- my radio is a U.S. version M802 without a CE mark, so technically not allowed at all on my UK flagged vessel. I would like to avoid getting into trouble.
That one has an easy answer: the Icom M801E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
One other question I have, however, is whether the UK has the same rule about never using your marine radio for ham use. The FCC has no authority in the UK. Maybe the rules are different here. I have not been able find anything on the subject, although I supposed I could write to Ofcom.
Can't help you there. I got my SRC when I lived in the UK but never got my LRC.
__________________

__________________
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 08:31   #123
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
Re: Ham License

Auspicious-
I would suggest there's an easy answer to " The FCC has no authority in the UK. "
Sure it does. The FCC has global authority over FCC licensees. And since Dockhead has an FCC ham license...they own him, and their rules apply.
As I recall, one of those rules is that he follow ITU and other rules while overseas, so he's subject to UK regulation while operating out of the UK, as well as Part97. Assuming anyone wanted to fly an FCC field team over to check up on him. Once he clears UK territorial waters, he's back to being subject to Part97 on the high seas.

"Hi, we're from the FCC, and we're here to inspect all the US radio licensees operating out of Polynesia this month."

Dream job? <G>
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 10:18   #124
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,742
Re: Ham License

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I've had many radios and built myself many more than that. In the end, besides the Icom marine radios that many also have, these are my final choice:

1. Kenwood TS480-HX. I added the voice module.
a. SGC SG230 Smart tuner.
b. long wire antenna (hoist with halyard)

2. Kenwood TM-D710 dual band.
a. Green Light Labs GPS module
b. Mobile dual band 2m/70cm
(has internal TNC)

3. Kenwood TH-D72 dual band handheld (2x)
(these handhelds have internal GPS and TNC)

I have slightly modified the dual banders to expand their TX to their tech limits :whistle:

With these you can do amazing things. Example: I can take a handheld (VHF & UHF) out with the dingy and sit on a deserted beach and then decide to tune in to the HF (!!) cruisers net. I put it in SkyCommand mode which initiates contact with the D710 aboard. The 710 is wired to the TS480. Duplex communications are established using both 2m and 70cm bands while the TNC uses packet mode for a digital link which allows me to enter the HF frequency to set theTS480 to etc. I can not just listen, but also talk on the SSB net. This is actually allowed when the cruisers net is on a HAM band...

Or.. I want to use a handheld marine VHF but have enormous range. I put the D710 in cross-band repeater mode (UHF with the handheld and VHF on the marine band) and my handheld on the chosen UHF frequency. I normally add some DCS for locking out other pirates from using the repeater, and now my little handheld is on the VHF with a masthead antenna and 50+ Watts. Not that I would do this of-course as it is not allowed.

The possibilities are endless and this gear is top notch... the price reflects that unfortunately, but it's a steal compared to marine grade gear.
Fabulous!!

I think I will really want to play with VHF & UHF ham bands, and I love your cross-band repeater. Have you opened up your HF transceiver so it will also transmit (illegally) on the marine bands?

You end up with a lot of radios, however! There are so many ham transceivers which will do VHF/HUF as well as HF -- is it really necessary to have separate transceivers for these functions? It would be hard for me to accommodate even one more radio at my nav table, which is why I was attracted to the forthcoming Icom 7100, which has a desktop remote control head, and does all the bands.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 10:44   #125
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Camden, ME
Boat: A Thistle and a Hallberg-Rassy 36
Posts: 661
Re: Ham License

Dockhead -

The Kenwood TS-480 that Jedi uses is a very well regarded rig. Whether the forthcoming IC-7100 is better or not, who knows? I use an IC-7000 for Ham band activities on my boat since the M-802 is awkward to use for CW or recreational digital modes.

The IC-7000 does have some idiosyncrasies that may or may not pass down into the IC-7100. In particular, it demands a full 13.8 Volts when peak output approaches the rated 100 watts. I use a TG-Electronics boost convertor to make sure it has this. It also runs rather hot in digital modes. I have a fan blowing directly on the heat sink to be on the safe side.

I would much rather be using my Elecraft K2 or KX3 for Ham stuff on the boat, but they are not as amenable to emergency marine band operation, and interfacing to the Pactor modem and the Icom AT-140 ATU is not so easy as with the IC-7000.

Good luck and have fun. Congrats on your licensure!

Chip
__________________
SoonerSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 13:26   #126
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,742
Re: Ham License

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerSailor View Post
Dockhead -

The Kenwood TS-480 that Jedi uses is a very well regarded rig. Whether the forthcoming IC-7100 is better or not, who knows? I use an IC-7000 for Ham band activities on my boat since the M-802 is awkward to use for CW or recreational digital modes.

The IC-7000 does have some idiosyncrasies that may or may not pass down into the IC-7100. In particular, it demands a full 13.8 Volts when peak output approaches the rated 100 watts. I use a TG-Electronics boost convertor to make sure it has this. It also runs rather hot in digital modes. I have a fan blowing directly on the heat sink to be on the safe side.

I would much rather be using my Elecraft K2 or KX3 for Ham stuff on the boat, but they are not as amenable to emergency marine band operation, and interfacing to the Pactor modem and the Icom AT-140 ATU is not so easy as with the IC-7000.

Good luck and have fun. Congrats on your licensure!

Chip
That Kenwood does look nice!!

Very compact and with a separate control head!

With 200 watts of output!

But it's HF + 6 meters only, so it doesn't actually do a whole lot more than what the 802 should be able to do. I guess it has more flexible and powerful filters.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 13:31   #127
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Fabulous!!

I think I will really want to play with VHF & UHF ham bands, and I love your cross-band repeater. Have you opened up your HF transceiver so it will also transmit (illegally) on the marine bands?

You end up with a lot of radios, however! There are so many ham transceivers which will do VHF/HUF as well as HF -- is it really necessary to have separate transceivers for these functions? It would be hard for me to accommodate even one more radio at my nav table, which is why I was attracted to the forthcoming Icom 7100, which has a desktop remote control head, and does all the bands.
Both Kenwood come with remote control heads. I don't think the Icom can do APRS?! Here is the test: can the radio equiped as standard without any options and any other gear except antenna, send a Winlink email message? Only when it does, you get full APRS functionality. I think only the Kenwoods and maybe a Yeasu can do this.

All my tranceivers are opened up to do what they can. Okay, I didn't bother with the Icom 602 but the rest is. My TS480 can transmit on all bands, straight from 1.8 to 30 MHz. I believe it even supports 50 MHz. This is fully legal. The only illegal thing would be to actually transmit on the marine SSB bands, but we would never do such a horrible thing! :whistle:

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 13:34   #128
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Forgot: for things like SkyCommand, crossband repeater, digipeater etc. you really need the Kenwood set. Other gear needs additional computers, modems, TNC's etc, which is all built in with the Kenwood radios.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 13:53   #129
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
The situation in Europe and hence the UK is that the 802E ( which is a modified version ) is type approved by ETSI. that type approval does not allow the radio to be used outside the designated bands ( I'm not sure the CE 892 can actually be opened up anyway ) So while the marine MF/HF unit can be used on ham , doing so breaks ETSI regulations ( and irrespective Dockhead is in the UK )

However of course there's no regulatory oversight. Nobody cares really.

( the lack of a CE approved radio, means technically you invalidated your ships license. , but again no one cares

My ham rig is an icom 7000

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 15:04   #130
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,742
Re: Ham License

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Forgot: for things like SkyCommand, crossband repeater, digipeater etc. you really need the Kenwood set. Other gear needs additional computers, modems, TNC's etc, which is all built in with the Kenwood radios.
Well I have a Pactor modem, so I'm not sure a built in TNC would be that important for me, but the I com 7100 does havethe DStar system, with built in digital voice and data. I don't know if that is similar to the Kenwood system or not.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 15:30   #131
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Well I have a Pactor modem, so I'm not sure a built in TNC would be that important for me, but the I com 7100 does havethe DStar system, with built in digital voice and data. I don't know if that is similar to the Kenwood system or not.
Ehrmm.. no, for boats the DStar system is worthless. You need APRS, which is not a Kenwood system but a world standard. For example, it is linked to Winlink for both email and position reporting. DStar is not, you can only communicate with other DStar systems, which is just Icom IIRC ?

APRS is digital data only, no voice. It needs a modem much like Pactor. It is called a TNC, Terminal Node Controller, just like for X.25 networks (which it is). Some radios have a TNC built in, like the Kenwoods and Yeasu. For other radios you can buy an external one, just like a Pactor modem.

For Pactor you need your computer. Same for APRS... except when you have the Kenwood radios which have the software for using APRS built in too! It's far ahead of Pactor with that. For example: when you send a Winlink email over Pactor, you use the Airmail program on a computer. With APRS you can use a computer if you want, but you can also send a Winlink email message with just the radio, using the dialpad on the microphone just like a cellphone. Way cool. Also, position reporting is fully automatic, as are repeaters for the data link (digipeaters, Jedi is a fill-in repeater for Panama at the moment).

The catch with APRS is range: it's line of sight, kind of. The thing is that the repeaters are often located at high points like mountain tops, giving enormous range. I regularly do 100km but there is a station at the top of Volcan Baru that is over 300km away but I can still use it 100%. I will test this off-shore for ultimate range

Anyway, it is APRS that you need.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 20:58   #132
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: OPB
Posts: 184
Thanks Jedi, that's what I was trying to figure out.
__________________
I.Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 21:10   #133
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Ham License

Wikipedia has a decent article on APRS: Automatic Packet Reporting System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the system that keep emergency services going after natural disasters. Even the International Space Station has a digipeater
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 08:49   #134
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
Re: Ham License

Except APRS is, like so much of ham radio, trying to herd cats. The "network" depends on volunteers and voluntary coverage, and how robust it is or isn't varies. The creator, Bob Bruninga, has voiced loud objections over how it is typically misused. (As I recall he's an Annapolis grad & instructor.)
"This is the system that keep emergency services going after natural disasters." Perhaps it might, but I'd say that it is stretching reality by a huge bit to claim it has or will made any substantial contribution that way. Sporradic, yes. Piecemeal, yes. Substantial in any way? Not really.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 09:44   #135
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Ham License

All HAM radio is voluntary, period. If you don't want that, pay for a satphone and that's it.

When disaster like Katrina or WTC happen, it is the HAM's that create communication networks that are used for emergency operations, even though the HAMs do it voluntarily.

Bob Bruninga does not object anything, he is the inventor of APRS. But he loudly endorses the use of much more functionality that it offers.

I find this a typical response from a member who doesn't have something and needs to convince himself that it's worthless Well, check out your area on APRS.fi and you'll find out how active it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Except APRS is, like so much of ham radio, trying to herd cats. The "network" depends on volunteers and voluntary coverage, and how robust it is or isn't varies. The creator, Bob Bruninga, has voiced loud objections over how it is typically misused. (As I recall he's an Annapolis grad & instructor.)
"This is the system that keep emergency services going after natural disasters." Perhaps it might, but I'd say that it is stretching reality by a huge bit to claim it has or will made any substantial contribution that way. Sporradic, yes. Piecemeal, yes. Substantial in any way? Not really.
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
license

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:43.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.