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Old 13-06-2017, 00:59   #1
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GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Hi!

Was looking to get GPS into VHF by connecting a GPS receiver to its green and yellow input cables.

However, just changed plotter to Raymarine ES75 and had to install a SeaTalk NG to SeaTalk converter, to get all old instruments into the plotter, into its SeaTalk NG port.

I now have two hubs: the old SeaTalk hub and the SeaTalk NG hub, interconnected. Connected my True Heading AIS transceiver via its NMEA 2000 output port to the SeaTalk NG hub, worked straight out of the box!

iCom IC-M323 supports only NMEA 0183, not NMEA 2000. Can I get the GPS signal it needs for DSC functionality from the SeaTalk/SeaTalk NG backbone, rather than having to mount an extra GPS unit?

Can I even get VHF data into the Raymarine ES75 MFD? (Why would I want it?). I.e. can I connect the
brown (NMEA in - Talker B, Data-L),
white (NMEA in +, Talker A, Data-H),
green (NMEA Out -, Listern B, Data-L) and
yellow (NMEA Out +, Listener A, Data-H)
cables from the VHF to the SeaTalk network?

The colours seem different with SeaTalk:
http://api.ning.com/files/1zNsEY*-Cr...X/e7DSCVHF.pdf

I would rather by a ready-made cable for this than welding, especially with the mix-match of colours between Raymarine vs. iCom above.

Does the Raymarine ES75 MFD send GPS signal out on the SeaTalk network? Receiveable both by SeaTalk 1 and SeaTalk NG units?

I don't want to use (unless I must) the NMEA 0183 outputs on the plotter (mounted in the cockpit), as I only use two cables from it now, and it's painful to drill extra holes in the piedestal (stainless tubes behind the steering wheel) and have a long cable from there. So I'd rather use this:
https://www.hjertmans.se/produkter/e...FVaJsgodhywNmg

But all ports on my current SeaTalk NG hub occupied so probably lots of $$$ to get this working, more cables and stuff.

Better off buying a GPS receiver on eBay and connect to the VHF and not bother with the Raymarine/SeaTalk stuff? But what about "transceive", can I get anything useful from VHF into the plotter?

Thanks for a good forum!

Cheers
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Old 14-06-2017, 09:10   #2
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Re: GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Bob,
I had to look up the Icom M-323, as it's not a US product...
But, it is a current entry-level Icom Class D VHF-DSC-FM Marine Radio (similar to the M-424)....
It accepts NMEA 0183 only....(NMEA 0183 ver. 2.0 or 3.01)
{note that the M-323G has it's own built-in GPS receiver, since I assume this is a new radio, along with your new Raymarine plotter, if you can return the radio and exchange it for a the M-323G, your problem is solved! }
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/.../IC-M323_0.pdf


Your solutions are:
a) Simply exchange radio for one with GPS receiver built-in...

b) Connect external GPS receiver (such as Garmin GPS76, etc.) as a dedicated radio GPS, to your radio, via the GPS's NMEA0183 output.

c) Connect your plotter's NMEA0183 output to your M-323 radio's NMEA input...(and your plotter's NMEA0183 input to the M323's NMEA output)

d) Use a few components to home-brew a SeaTalk to NMEA converter and use that to send NMEA0183 data to your M-323.

e) Buy and install a SeaTalk (or SeaTalkNG) to NMEA converter and use that to send NMEA0183 data to your M-323...

My usual advice is to just use a dedicated GPS for your DSC radios (which is what I've been doing and recommending for > a dozen years), as I highlight in solution "b" above....as this allows you to use your VHF-DSC radio even if your plotter is off, has malfunctioned, or you don't have enough electrical power to run it, etc...

The least expensive approach is to use your plotter's NMEA0183 output.
I realize you don't want to drill another hole and run more wires, but the choices above are what you have....
And, the decision is yours....


{BTW, the only NMEA data that the M-323 outputs (other than possibly passing-thru the GPS data??) is the position data from another vessel's DSC call to you...not sure if this is important to you, but if it is, then you'd need to go with choice "c" or "e"...}

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob666 View Post
iCom IC-M323 supports only NMEA 0183, not NMEA 2000. Can I get the GPS signal it needs for DSC functionality from the SeaTalk/SeaTalk NG backbone, rather than having to mount an extra GPS unit?

Can I even get VHF data into the Raymarine ES75 MFD? (Why would I want it?).

I don't want to use (unless I must) the NMEA 0183 outputs on the plotter (mounted in the cockpit), as I only use two cables from it now, and it's painful to drill extra holes in the piedestal (stainless tubes behind the steering wheel) and have a long cable from there. So I'd rather use this:
https://www.hjertmans.se/produkter/e...FVaJsgodhywNmg

But all ports on my current SeaTalk NG hub occupied so probably lots of $$$ to get this working, more cables and stuff.

Better off buying a GPS receiver on eBay and connect to the VHF and not bother with the Raymarine/SeaTalk stuff? But what about "transceive", can I get anything useful from VHF into the plotter?
As I wrote above, the decision is yours....I listed the options you have...
And, I gave you my recommendations...

If you cannot exchange the radio ("a"), then:
Either "b" or "c"...
Depends on your sailing / voyaging as to which one is "better"....(for those doing offshore sailing, and/or those needing to conserve electrical power, and/or those who don't need/use their plotter all the time....then certainly "b" is the better choice....)

Hope this helps...

Fair winds..

John
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Old 17-06-2017, 13:51   #3
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Re: GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
Bob,
I had to look up the Icom M-323, as it's not a US product...
But, it is a current entry-level Icom Class D VHF-DSC-FM Marine Radio (similar to the M-424)....
It accepts NMEA 0183 only....(NMEA 0183 ver. 2.0 or 3.01)
{note that the M-323G has it's own built-in GPS receiver, since I assume this is a new radio, along with your new Raymarine plotter, if you can return the radio and exchange it for a the M-323G, your problem is solved! }
http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/.../IC-M323_0.pdf


Your solutions are:
a) Simply exchange radio for one with GPS receiver built-in...

b) Connect external GPS receiver (such as Garmin GPS76, etc.) as a dedicated radio GPS, to your radio, via the GPS's NMEA0183 output.

c) Connect your plotter's NMEA0183 output to your M-323 radio's NMEA input...(and your plotter's NMEA0183 input to the M323's NMEA output)

d) Use a few components to home-brew a SeaTalk to NMEA converter and use that to send NMEA0183 data to your M-323.

e) Buy and install a SeaTalk (or SeaTalkNG) to NMEA converter and use that to send NMEA0183 data to your M-323...

My usual advice is to just use a dedicated GPS for your DSC radios (which is what I've been doing and recommending for > a dozen years), as I highlight in solution "b" above....as this allows you to use your VHF-DSC radio even if your plotter is off, has malfunctioned, or you don't have enough electrical power to run it, etc...

The least expensive approach is to use your plotter's NMEA0183 output.
I realize you don't want to drill another hole and run more wires, but the choices above are what you have....
And, the decision is yours....


{BTW, the only NMEA data that the M-323 outputs (other than possibly passing-thru the GPS data??) is the position data from another vessel's DSC call to you...not sure if this is important to you, but if it is, then you'd need to go with choice "c" or "e"...}


As I wrote above, the decision is yours....I listed the options you have...
And, I gave you my recommendations...

If you cannot exchange the radio ("a"), then:
Either "b" or "c"...
Depends on your sailing / voyaging as to which one is "better"....(for those doing offshore sailing, and/or those needing to conserve electrical power, and/or those who don't need/use their plotter all the time....then certainly "b" is the better choice....)

Hope this helps...

Fair winds..

John
Excellent reply!

I ordered item:
Raymarine VHF NMEA0183 to STng Converter kit Force 4 Chandlery

Corresponds to choice E above.

Let me briefly explain. I got the Raymarine ES75. I drilled two holes in the pedestal in front of the steering wheel. I am putting two cables through the stainless tube down into the boat going further to the hav station, where all the electronics reside: AIS etc.

The two cables are SeaTalk NG port and Power. Not using the two NMEA 0183 output/inputs on the plotter. I don't want to drill any more holes in the pedestal thereby weakening it and having to buy a NMEA 0183 cable of at least 5 m length to connect to the VHF.

Inside the boat - just below the pedestal is an adapter/T-junction, from which a backbone cable goes to a SeaTalk NG hub/converter. From the SeaTalk hub goes a cable to the SeaTalk 1 hub.

The SeaTalk 1 network has lots of old instruments attached, they come up nicely in the plotter, and I can control the old Autohelm autopilot also.

I got this AIS:
True Heading Graphene CTRX+, white "Seapilot Edition":
Seapilot AIS Powerboat - True Heading

I simply attached the AIS to the SeaTalk NG hub from its NMEA 2000 port.

It shows in the plotter, working nicely.

I suppose the AIS should get the GPS signal from the plotter? I connected it to a laptop via its USB port and started a diagnostics program. I get pretty weak but enough GPS signal (I am at N 58 degrees). When connecting a dedicated GPS receiver to it, I get better GPS signal. The plotter is under open sky but the AIS and its GPS receiver is down below (but just an inch or two of fibreglass above them). I take it the AIS is not having any kind of internal GPS receive, it must come from either the plotter via the SeaTalk network or from the connected GPS receiver.

Just after ordering the SeaTalk NG VHF kit, I found that I had already ordered a GPS receiver which can connect to the green and yellow wires of the VHF. I did this last winter, but forgot all about it until I found it today.


To sum up, I wonder the following:

1. Does the AIS receive GPS from the plotter when no separate GPS receiver connected to it? Or is it getting GPS from "internal circuits" which explains the poor signal strength?

2. I take it I can get GPS receive both for the AIS transceiver and the VHF from the SeaTalk NG network, not having to use any extra GPS:s.

If I connect the two extra GPS:s I got, one to the AIS and one to the VHF, will that affect my system negatively, please? This corresponds to combining your option B and E above.

I am thinking it will be better from a redundancy perspective? I could turn off the plotter and still have DSC functionality with the VHF. Or I could turn off the plotter and still have AIS working, please? As we're going on an Atlantic passage not too far in the future, power consumption will be an issue. Perhaps we can turn of the AIS for example, a few hours during daylight. Wouldn't want to turn off the VHF though, but just to analyze all options...

I have seen, perhaps rumours, on the internet, that the plotter will incorrectly get GPS receive from one of the external GPS:s rather than its internal, not something I want, as the ES75 supposedly has a good internal GPS? (Doubt it though, as the AIS had poor signal strength when disconnecting its GPS?). If this is true, then I cannot have extra GPS receivers in my system.

3. Raymarine states in their manuals to connect a power supply to the SeaTalk NG hub. I think they have a pretty good business going on, selling extra hubs and cables this way. As I will be using the 6 pin port on the adapter then, I would need another SeaTalk NG hub to connect further equipment.

I noticed that all my SeaTalk 1 instruments wouldn't turn off if I power supply the SeaTalk NG.

It seems totally unnecessary? It is alive and kicking without that power supply. I suppose it gets power from elsewhere and probably the SeaTalk 1 network is power supplied somewhere (I don't know all the details of the SeaTalk 1 network I got, just know it works).

If I opt-in for the power supply option (thereby loosing an important data port of the SeaTalk NG hub), I would have to route that power via the instruments on-off switch, which involves 1-2 hours of extra labour.

Can I skip that extra power supply, please?

4. If I connect, in parallel (parallel to the SNT>VHF NMEA0183 converter hub), the external GPS to the VHF, will that affect the VHF:s capability to send data to the plotter via the SeaTalk NG network? I would of course want that functionality. Not sure yet what functionality I will be getting but I think possibly: the plotter with mark the boat calling me on the chart, its position. And if I press the Mayday button (DSC) on the VHF it will be plotted on my plotters' chart? If boats in the vicinity press the DSC Mayday button, will that get plotted on my chart? Could be useful if I am close and will aid them?

Cheers
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Old 18-06-2017, 03:25   #4
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Re: GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Found manual for SeaTalk -SeaTalk NG converter. (Not the VHF converter, additional item ordered).

Says I should power the SeaTalk NG converter /hub and that the SeaTalk 1 hub should not be powered. Also says "If present, the preferred power supply method is via a connected autopilot". However it seems the SeaTalk 1 network is powered in my case.

So I could skip powering the SeaTalk Ng hub? Or will the VHF converter work then? Probably it doesn't have its own power supply but should be getting its juice from the SeaTalk 1 network via the SeaTalk Ng hub?

Any risk not following best practice here? I face reengineering the entire SeaTalk 1 system, not a route I am willing to take, with all the weird connections and cabling some by previous owner.

Cheers
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Old 18-06-2017, 08:21   #5
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Re: GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Down at the boat.

Beginning to understand SeaTalk vs. NMEA etc.

Sorry for confusion earlier. Anyway, I cannot find a way to turn on/off GPS output from the chart plotter over its SeaTalk NG port.

I am only using its SeaTalk NG port, not the NMEA 0183 ports. Therefore I must convert back to NMEA 0183 at the Nav station, if needed by any instrument.

My AIS is not Raymarine and does not speak SeaTalk. Therefore I get no GPS input to the AIS over its NMEA 2000 port (the port going into the SeaTalk NG hub).

No harm in connecting a GPS unit to it I suppose.
I will also connect a GPS unit to the VHF. + the SeaTalk NG VHF Converter (converts SeaTalk GPS to NMEA 0183?!?). I will also get DSC into the plotter I hope.
The SeaTalk NG converter will get its power from SeaTalk 1. Will do this summer, we'll see what will happen.
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Old 23-06-2017, 12:29   #6
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Re: GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Bob,
I've been wanting to help you out here, but have 2 problems:
--- Been busy with some family matters
--- Waiting for you to describe exactly what you have on-board


As an example, an AIS transponder must have (by IMO rule) its own internal GPS receiver and usually has an external antenna....
So, you mentioning getting GPS into your AIS is confusing??
Perhaps you have an AIS receiver only??
If so, where do you display the AIS targets??


There are literally dozens of questions that spring up here about all of what you are trying to do....and in my opinion, most of the issues that you seem to be having are related to three basic problems:

a) over-thinking everything....this is a rather simple set-up, and there is no reason to delve into SeaTalkNG, vs. SeaTalk, vs. NMEA0183...
Just decide what info/data you want on what device, connect it up the way it will work (NMEA0183 in to NMEA0183 out, etc.) and you're done!

b) desiring to make it simple by adding more devices...this is typical of our modern consumer-electronics industry, where everything is supposedly solved by a new device or App!! But, in reality what most of us actually desire on-board (especially for navigation) is simplicity and reliability, not more stuff!

c) not thinking this process through like it was a "system" (which it is), but rather as pieces that need to be tied together...



{Without any more info/details from you, there is little left to do but guess...and my best guess / advice I gave right up front, earlier..}

If you explain what you have (everything) and in detail (exact manufacturer and model numbers),
and exactly where all of these things are installed and how they are all currently wired-up,
and then explain what you desire to accomplish,
as well as where and how you are sailing/cruising (big difference between someone planning an ocean crossing or circumnav, versus a quick trip thru the Bahamas, versus coastal cruising, etc...as well as what weather and air/water temps you're navigating in, etc.)....

And, then ask the "how-to's", I will be much better able to help (which I do want to do)...


Fair winds..

John
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Old 13-07-2017, 07:51   #7
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Re: GPS receive (transceive?) to iCom IC-M323

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
Bob,
I've been wanting to help you out here, but have 2 problems:
--- Been busy with some family matters
--- Waiting for you to describe exactly what you have on-board


As an example, an AIS transponder must have (by IMO rule) its own internal GPS receiver and usually has an external antenna....
So, you mentioning getting GPS into your AIS is confusing??
Perhaps you have an AIS receiver only??
If so, where do you display the AIS targets??


There are literally dozens of questions that spring up here about all of what you are trying to do....and in my opinion, most of the issues that you seem to be having are related to three basic problems:

a) over-thinking everything....this is a rather simple set-up, and there is no reason to delve into SeaTalkNG, vs. SeaTalk, vs. NMEA0183...
Just decide what info/data you want on what device, connect it up the way it will work (NMEA0183 in to NMEA0183 out, etc.) and you're done!

b) desiring to make it simple by adding more devices...this is typical of our modern consumer-electronics industry, where everything is supposedly solved by a new device or App!! But, in reality what most of us actually desire on-board (especially for navigation) is simplicity and reliability, not more stuff!

c) not thinking this process through like it was a "system" (which it is), but rather as pieces that need to be tied together...



{Without any more info/details from you, there is little left to do but guess...and my best guess / advice I gave right up front, earlier..}

If you explain what you have (everything) and in detail (exact manufacturer and model numbers),
and exactly where all of these things are installed and how they are all currently wired-up,
and then explain what you desire to accomplish,
as well as where and how you are sailing/cruising (big difference between someone planning an ocean crossing or circumnav, versus a quick trip thru the Bahamas, versus coastal cruising, etc...as well as what weather and air/water temps you're navigating in, etc.)....

And, then ask the "how-to's", I will be much better able to help (which I do want to do)...


Fair winds..

John
Hi John!

Been sailing extensively but now in harbour with 3G/4G.

We did a passage with the following setup, we were in a hurry go get things working:

Plotter: Raymarine ES75
VHF: iCom IC-M323
AIS transponder: Seapilot TrueHeading CTRX Graphene+ wi-fi white.
GPS devices: several. One connected to the VHF with two cables, think it's called NMEA 0183.
One connected to the AIS using a more modern connector (was bundled with the AIS transponder).

Quite happy with this setup. Not sure we'd be happier by integrating VHF into the plotter?

When on passage, it is useful to get an AIS warning when big ships within a few Nm. I often read inside the boat or sitting with obstructed view (cold at this latitude). If I need to talk to a boat over the VHF, I can just click on it in the plotter and see its call sign and name etc.

So not sure we need to change this setup, worked fine, please?

We're going to do more passages soon and sail in even more cluttered waters than the Baltic Sea, such as the English channel, outside Rotterdam etc. AIS will come in handy I think.

Cheers
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