Furuno NavNet 3D Crashes?

[twistedtree]

OK, this is starting to get frustrating. I've had quite a few crashes on my NN3D displays (MFD12). It's really not cool when you are trying to navigate and suddenly you go blind. Are others having troubles? When it happens, I get a popup saying nn3d.exe has had a native exception and everything freezes. I have to hold down the power for 5 seconds or so to power of the dead display, the reboot it. If it's the display that takes in the N2K data and disperses it to the other displays, then all hell really breaks loose.

My setup is|

2 MFD12 displays networked with a furuno hub
Furuno Weather on network.
Furuno AIS on network
Pc running MaxSea on network
A bunch of stuff on N2K which ties to one MFD and distributes to others via ethernet.

The crashes have happened on all of the displays at one time or another. Often it occurs when loading or unlocking charts, but it's happened while zooming out on a chart, and its happened while just sitting and watching the displays.

[Paul L]

If you have tides and currents displayed on the overlay, turn them off. This is a known problem. Just turn the t&c on when you need to use them and then turn them off, i.e. don't leave them on for an extended period of time.

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by Paul L

If you have tides and currents displayed on the overlay, turn them off. This is a known problem. Just turn the t&c on when you need to use them and then turn them off, i.e. don't leave them on for an extended period of time.

OK, I'll try that - thanks.

[CarinaPDX]

Furuno USA is now running a forum, if you are continuing to look for answers. There is a thread for recommending new features as well.

Furuno USA Forum

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Furuno USA is now running a forum, if you are continuing to look for answers. There is a thread for recommending new features as well.

Furuno USA Forum

The forum is OK for asking simple questions, but they'll dance around hard questions like 'when is the next release'.

I beginning to fear Furuno is abandoning the NN3D customers. It's been ~18 months since any updates. There are 4 software 'issues' that need addressed. At the boat show">Miami Boat Show in Feb. they stated the engineers have been working on TZ Touch and to expect a NN3D update late second quarter. Now 5 weeks into third quarter and nothing.

[twistedtree]

Were the pre-NN3D MFDs also based on MaxSea, or did MaxSea come into the picture with the introduction of NN3D?

To me, the TZ falls into the same category as 3D - showy features taking engineering priority over bug fixes and robustness. These are navigation devices, not windows apps or web apps where "just reboot and try again" is the norm. I bought into Furuno because it was supposed to be rock solid, working-mariner grade equipment. So far I'm not impressed.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

Were the pre-NN3D MFDs also based on MaxSea, or did MaxSea come into the picture with the introduction of NN3D?

The NN 1 & 2 were not MaxSea. They were rock solid.

Originally Posted by twistedtree

To me, the TZ falls into the same category as 3D - showy features taking engineering priority over bug fixes and robustness.

Not to mention very expensive. Competitors new lines are offering more features at lower prices while Furuno is raising them.

Originally Posted by twistedtree

These are navigation devices, not windows apps or web apps where "just reboot and try again" is the norm. I bought into Furuno because it was supposed to be rock solid, working-mariner grade equipment. So far I'm not impressed.

NN3D is version 1 of the new paradigm using COTS (common off the shelf) technology. So, yes, I'll let part of the blame go to that. But to sit here and ignore a bug list while using their engineers to build new products doesn't bode well for customer service, which Furuno is suppose to be tops. As I see it right now, OpenCPN developers offer better customer service than Furuno, at least they admit to and fix bugs.

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by DotDun

The NN 1 & 2 were not MaxSea. They were rock solid.

Placing the heart of their product line in the hands of a third party may go down as one of the great strategic blunders of all time.

[CarinaPDX]

I think that is being a tad harsh. Lashing up with MaxSea got Furuno compatibility with the leading desktop navigation app - an area where RayMarine was out ahead. If they had to develop it in-house then they would still be at it. So that was a strategic win. And they have set themselves up to have their own chart supplier - MapMedia - to get a cut of that business. Well done from a business perspective.

My criticism is that to benefit by all of the MaxSea code they had to base the NN3D systems on Windows; all of these MFDs are actually Windows boxes, disguised as well as possible. The MaxSea folks have been around for a long time (they started out as a Mac vendor, hence the name) and they have been doing great work. Pity I can't say anything so nice about the underlying Windows code... Now THAT I think is the strategic blunder.

Greg

[DotDun]

Windows in a controlled environment isn't that bad.

Maxsea is very good nav software. And Furuno did make a financial investment in Maxsea.

I think the NN3D hardware was showing it's age at launch. It's certainly small on horsepower and in hindsight the hard drive wasn't the best idea.

But, if they supported it like they should, I can live with it. As of right now, I'm not sure I would buy Furuno at refresh time.

The radar is second to none, just did a passage with a buddy boat where I could see a vessel in the middle of the rain cell and his Garmin HD couldn't.

Feel like I'm between that rock and that hard place.

[David M]

Call the dealer or Furuno tech support to see if you are running the most current software update. That's a must before you go on with any trouble shooting. Then if you are still having problem call their tech support back. They have the best tech support of all the marine electronics manufacturers, in my experience.

Furuno is rock solid. I have used it for many years. It is pretty rare for there to be a problem.

[twistedtree]

Interesting perspectives. I'm actually unimpressed with MaxSea, and view it to be as much of the problem as Windows CE. Maybe I'm asking too much, and I can't point to another nav program that I think is better (mostly because I haven't used many). But I think MaxSea is confusingly and poorly thought out, and integrates poorly with the MFDs. But I also accept that people's brains are wired differently, and confusion to one person is clarity to another.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Windows in a controlled environment isn't that bad.

I think that may be damning with faint praise... Certainly the slow startup is a function of Windows. I don't know why the initialization is so modal, and requires rebooting, but I really dislike that aspect. Why can't I make a few small changes without spending so much time? Bad design - I just don't know whether that was necessitated by Windows. At least with Linux they would have had all of the code available to make patches, so could fix any software problem (and wouldn't have to pay royalties); OTOH porting would have been an immense PITA.

Inevitably a custom machine like this will start with technology a bit behind the computer market, and then stay there until a major change., thus falling even further behind. It seems to be powerful enough to do the job; its zooming is impressively fast. I suppose it has an early Intel Atom chip inside, or the equivalent from AMD. Given the additional power required for a more potent CPU I think they probably made the right decision, at least for the MFD8. It might have made sense to put faster CPUs into the MFD12 and certainly the MFDBB as it is safe to assume that vessels that carry them can afford a bit more electrical draw. Still, I don't see the hardware as a major issue. However, we are getting to the point that Furuno should be considering replacing the HDDs with SSDs.

Until the TZ came along Furuno was making frequent updates to the software, adding a lot of nice features as well as bug fixes. It is understandable (if frustrating) that resources were diverted to get the TZ products out. The real test is what happens next: how long will Furuno continue to update the NN3D products? If we have seen the last update, then I will not be a happy camper.

I don't see the TZ as replacing the NN3D, at least in small boats. The idea of putting my salt-soaked fingers on an LCD is a complete non-starter. I operate the MFD8 in my very wet cockpit, so salt crystals and smearing are already a fact of life. As long as Furuno keeps selling the NN3D products, it should be updating them, and I should be satisfied; otherwise...

BTW, other than the slow startup and modal initialization, I don't really have any software complaints. At least not in the sense of unresolved bugs (perhaps ignorance is bliss here). There is always room for improvement. The GUI could have been better, but the capability is crazy good, so I'm willing to give it a pass. YMMV

Greg

[David M]

I have a Furuno MFDBB and it is great. The fact that the OS is Windows has never been an issue. You wouldn't even know it is Windows when using it. The UI is not Windows like. Also, it has NEVER crashed and I doubt I am the one exception.

[CarinaPDX]

Yes, David, agreed.

If we go back to the OP this thread was about a serious problem with a very complex NN3D installation (2 MFDs + one PC), which as you said should be turned over to the Furuno techs. I think I had a problem once with updating, but in operation my system has never crashed or failed in any significant way. Whatever criticisms I have, reliability has not been one of them. And agreed, the UHD antennas are most impressive - even my little DRS2D. BTW Furuno came out with a firmware update to the radars in June.

Greg