Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2007, 19:56   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 1
Forward Scanning Sonar ?

What do you guys think about the fwd-facing sonars out there? I was looking at the Interphase site and it seems like an awful lot of clutter in the demo videos. I imagine there's a gain option that you might be able to use to tone that down but then range would suffer. I dunno...seems like a good idea for avoiding hazards - rocks, coralheads, whales, shipping containers. But then it also seems like the technology isn't quite there yet.
__________________

__________________
Wallrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 20:05   #2
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
The US Navy likes 'em...

Never tried one in real life, but the idea is good.
Hook it up to a computer and an alarm and you should have a couple of minuttes warning before you loose your boat.

Or just pay attention.

Human performance what it is, probably a good idea in the long run.
We all screw up..Sooner or later.
__________________

__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 20:25   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Just read an article by Andy O'Grady and I think they are okay for probing small areas. Such as checking out and anchorage, or feeling your way into a poorly charted bay. He travels the higher latitudes so he thought his worthwhile, but it takes a lot of practice to become proficient with them. They also have a slow refresh rate which can be confusing. Apparently setting the alarms is a problem.

His article is in Ocean Navigator and I had the same feeling. Not quite there yet, unless you are messing about in the high lattitudes.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 21:45   #4
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
I've been interested in them and reading what I could find, including the Ocean Navigator article. The synopsis of what I've gathered:

After you get enough experience to interpret what you are seeing, they can be very helpful for quickly charting out an unfamiliar anchorage, as well as finding a passage through poorly charted and unknown tight spots, so long as you can go slowly and don't have too much wave action. They are not much use as a warning system for floating or partially submerged hazards, as the signal noise close to the surface and limited range likely wouldn't give you much warning and/or you would have to use so much sensitivity that you would get many false alarms.

Of course, for the prices of the ones we could reasonably call within the usual cruiser's budget, this might be enough usefulness to justify them. Like with almost anything, if you're willing to pay more -- like $50 to $60K, then you can get a much more capable system.

Or, be in the right place at the right time when the Navy is surplusing one -- but, then again, that might be a bit heavy for our boats.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 23:01   #5
Registered User
 
Latitude9.5's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Boat: CAL 3-46
Posts: 441
Send a message via AIM to Latitude9.5
i have an interphase but havent installed it yet, will be installed in 2 weeks, so I will let you know after i scan the inlet LOL
__________________
Latitude9.5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 01:38   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
We've had an echopilot FLS since 2000. It doesn't do the side scan like the latest Interphase sonars, but scans forward in an arc from vertically down to horizontally forward. It also doesn't have a colour display. But they only cost around 1/2 what Interphase do, the update rate on the display is very good and overall mine works very well.

I doubt it would be much use as far as spotting shipping containers is concerned, until you were quite close anyway, but it is excellent for spotting reefs, especially coral, which can tend to be a vertical wall.

Usually it can "see" forward by 4 times the water's depth, up to a max of 150m. There is a more pricey version now that looks 200m forward.

Also their transducers fit in std 38mm thru-hulls, and can be withdrawn and cleaned, while the boat is in the water, which is a plus. The interphase transducer is quite large, probably not suitable for a fast multihull.

Here's their website: home :: Forward Looking Sonar by EchoPilot
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 09:06   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
CC:

That forward looking sonar looks great. Which one do you have? I can see where it would save hitting a few rocks or coral heads and pay for itself quickly.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 10:07   #8
Registered User
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Florida now, then Bahamas and carrib 2010
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 143
It is my understanding that the interphase has little to no use in less than 20 feet of water. That is per Interphase. I was going to get one keep from running aground, but they said that was not its best use. Call their tech line first.

- CD
__________________
Mainsheet Technical Editor, C400
Cruisingdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 10:46   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Charlie, the biggest problem(?) I see with the Echopilot is that it has only a vertical scan. It would be hard to tell if what you are seeing is a rock or a wall. The Interphase has both vertical and horizontal scanning which allows you to see the channel. A rock off to your side would show up as a rock, a shelf or wall would also show up as such.

I don't understand the CruisingDad's comment. The main use of forward looking sonar is to help keep you from running into things, mostly the bottom.

Just my opinion...
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 12:32   #10
Registered User
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Florida now, then Bahamas and carrib 2010
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 143
Deepfrz,

I did not understand it either (well, their comment). When I was cruising SW Florida, we were ALWAYS running aground (as many of you can guess that have been there). THus, we decided to look into a FF Sonar (specifically the Interphase) to find the channel.

Interphase told us, contrary to what has been writte up previously, that their product is not very effective in less than 20 feet of water. I asked him its purpose then, and he said to see floating objects, like shipping containers?? That statment goes against what has been stated earlier in the thread. Thus, we elected against the product.

I guess the product would be beneficial in areas where you have "deep water" and rising coral heads, etc. Unless the tech guru at Interphase was incorrect (which is very possible), it would be useless areas such as SW Florida and Keys where the water is very shallow. As many may know, in SW Fl, Keys, and Bahamas, if you show 20 feet of water you are certain the depth meter is broken!!

Again, I am giving you what I WAS TOLD, not my direct experience. I hope I am being clear about that. Just check with them first. If the info given to me was incorrect, I would be interested in investing in the product too. But won't Sea Tow be dissapointed (smile).

- CD
__________________
Mainsheet Technical Editor, C400
Cruisingdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 14:20   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
CD, thanks for the explanation. I just didn't understand what you were saying in previous post. Was your contact with Interphase recent, or some years ago?
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 15:25   #12
Registered User
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Florida now, then Bahamas and carrib 2010
Boat: Catalina 400
Posts: 143
ABout a year ago, I think. Maybe two.

- CD
__________________
Mainsheet Technical Editor, C400
Cruisingdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2007, 16:00   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Charlie ,we have an Echopilot Compact FLS, which is no longer made. From the website I would say the "Silver" one supercedes it. (It looks just the same)

CD, as I said before, the sonar can see forward by around 4 times the water's depth. (which would agree with what Interphase have said) So if your'e in only 2m of water, it's barely going to see past your bows. BUT this can still be useful, you can make turns left and right and find deeper water. That would probably be a little easier with the interphase, with the side-scanning feature. The main thing in really shallow water is to slow right down, so you have time to react to the info the sonar is giving you.

But really they work better in keeping you off sharply rising rocks, than in preventing groundings in shallow sandy bottomed water, where the bottom contours are more gradual.

Deepfrz, your point about it being hard to tell whether it was a rock or a wall in front is fair enough, but does it really matter? The main thing is, it's in front of you - you wouldn't know it was there at all, with a normal sonar. Obviously what you would do when you see the bottom rising sharply is change course - if it's an isolated rock you will see the path ahead becoming clear, if not, you keep turning.

One surprising use for it that we have found, is that you can actually watch the anchor, both going down or coming up. You can see when it hits bottom, and then let the boat settle back to pay out chain, and you can also see when it pulls free of the bottom, so you know when you have to start to keep an eye on your position in a tight spot.

Overall, we have been happy with the unit, and we definitely want one in the new boat.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2007, 13:30   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: germany, Berlin, boat at Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: MANTA 42, before Morgan 41 Classic, GibSea 106
Posts: 91
Anybody with practical experience with this type below?

Color Twinscope from INTERPHASE
__________________
pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2007, 14:21   #15
Registered User
 
psteele235's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rowayton, CT
Boat: De Kleer Fraser 30
Posts: 218
Take a look at 3D Forward Looking Sonar for Obstacle Avoidance

I saw their system perform in Newport, RI and it really works well.
__________________

__________________
Work is the curse of the boating classes

Patrick
psteele235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forward Scanning Sonar Stevens 47 Marine Electronics 22 07-07-2010 04:43
Forward Scanning Sonar sailingmonica Marine Electronics 1 07-09-2009 10:57
Forward-Looking Sonar Interference yachtdaemon Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 05-09-2009 09:14
Forward scanning sonar on a catamaran Roy M Marine Electronics 10 08-07-2008 11:03
Forward Sonar Lynx Forum Tech Support & Site Help 6 27-10-2006 08:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.