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Old 19-04-2010, 11:02   #1
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Forward Scanning Sonar

I have a Interphase Twinscope forward scan sonar, it operates at 200kHz. I also have NKE speed/temp log and depth transducers that also operate at 200kHZ. I am advised by the Interphase tec email (The first thing to note is our units operate at 200kHz. If you have another unit on your boat operating at the same frequency it doesn't matter how close or far apart the transducers are from each other, they WILL interfere with each other.) that any other 200kHZ transducer will create a conflict.

I have created fairing pads and installed them for the installations of the NKE stuff. Next is the Twinscope fairing block and locations. Location is very limited do to the keel, slinging the boat on haul outs and distance from the bow water line (creates aeration).

My alternative's.

1 Install all the devises and turn of the NKE when wanting to operate the Twinscope.
2 Not to install the Twinscope.
3 Installing another brand of sonar that does not operate in 200kHz

Would like to hear from others owning the Interphase Twinscope or other forward scanning sonar, about its usefulness do you use it, if you had it to do over would you bother to install it? and do you have conflicts with your other on-board items.

Other alternatives I am not seeing? Not installing the NKE stuff is not a option as all the equipment autopilot etc are the same.

Jack
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Old 19-04-2010, 11:38   #2
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I've got the same system , forward sonar from interphase.. I get interferance in some of my other electronics mostly from the transducer clicking.. and at times I hear it in my HF radio.. I installed it to see forward when going into a unknown area as a marina or a port..
so I normally turn everything else off when its on.........
I've got the older Black & White unit and was thinking on going to the newer multi color as you've got.. they said the upgrade was around 800.00..
I mounted mine on a block a couple feet in front of the keel (fin).. saw one on a BCC a couple years ago when out of the water.. his was on a block on the side of the keel.. I told the guy it was odd to see a forward facing sonar on a Channel Cutter.. Kinda state of the art meets old world design.. His reply was " Hush, and dont tell anyone"
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Old 19-04-2010, 16:34   #3
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G'Day Jack,
I've had Interphase Probes on both Insatiables, spanning about 14 years of full time cruising since installing the first one. Did have slight interference on I-one between the probe and a Standard Horizon depth sounder whose transducer was about a foot away from the Probe. Do not seem to have any such froblems on I-two with a different S-H sounder mounted even closer. I believe that these are both 50 KHz units. At shallow depths, there is some pulsing interference in our VHF.

As to the usefulness of the sonar... we spend a lot of time in unfamiliar areas, often poorly charted, and I would feel naked without the Probe! It has kept us off several unseen reefs, and always makes anchoring in unfamiliar waters less intimidating. For us it is an almost essential tool.

The downsides? Well, using it is a learned skill, much like interpreting a radar scope. We were disappointed to find that it is not useful in very shallow water (too short range and inadequate resolution). With only the Probe (no side to side scanner like the twinscope has) it is possible to miss seeing a narrow obstruction like a coral head if the boat is yawing a lot. The alarm features are pretty useless -- if you reduce the gain enough to avoid lots of false alarms, you can't see anything!

But, even though it isn't as good as the glossy brochures say, it is WAY better than not having it at all. We'd not leave home without it!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Lake Macquarie, NSW, Oz
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Old 19-04-2010, 18:06   #4
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I want one of these for my build but have always been turned off by the cost

In Australia
Interphase Iscan-180 $5,800.00 AUD

Interphase 180 - Forward looking sonar - Fish finders Sonar, Forward Looking Sonar, Aquatronics Marine Brookvale Australia

But in the US
I-SCAN-180E Sale $2,199.99 USD
iScan 180 Forward Looking Sonar, Remote Kit from INTERPHASE

= $2,392.51 aud
thats a saving of $3408.00
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Old 19-04-2010, 18:57   #5
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I bought an Echopilot Silver FLS from the UK for about 450 pounds stg. Landed here in Aus for well under $700. They retail here for nearly double that.

I have the Echopilot FLS, and a Raymarine ST60 depth, both operate on 200 kHz, and don't appear to interfere with each other at all.

They are mounted on opposite hulls on a catamaran, about 6 metres apart.
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:06   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevens 47 View Post
it doesn't matter how close or far apart the transducers are from each other, they WILL interfere with each other
Interesting

I wonder if he took into account on a multi having one of these in one hull and something like This mounted 20 feet away in the other hull?
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:08   #7
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I bought an Echopilot Silver FLS from the UK for about 450 pounds stg. Landed here in Aus for well under $700. They retail here for nearly double that.

I have the Echopilot FLS, and a Raymarine ST60 depth, both operate on 200 kHz, and don't appear to interfere with each other at all.

They are mounted on opposite hulls on a catamaran, about 6 metres apart.
So what about customs?

I was under the impression that they look at what it would cost to buy in Oz and then ask you to touch your toes while looking for some more money.

Link to echopilot http://www.echopilot.com/fls_silver.htm
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:25   #8
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Obviously the statement "The first thing to note is our units operate at 200kHz. If you have another unit on your boat operating at the same frequency it doesn't matter how close or far apart the transducers are from each other, they WILL interfere with each other." needs qualifying.

Otherwise sonars on boats hundreds of miles apart would interfere with each other.

There must be a degree of seperation where both will work.

As I said, I have 200kHz transducers on each hull, about 6 m apart, and they both work fine.
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:33   #9
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So what about customs?

I was under the impression that they look at what it would cost to buy in Oz and then ask you to touch your toes while looking for some more money.

Link to echopilot FLS Silver Forward Looking Sonar
Nope. They look at the value of the items in the package, according to the invoice. If the total is less than $1000 Aus, you won't pay duty or GST.

In fact, even if it's more, you often wont pay.

I've bought the great majority of my electronics overseas.

IMO it's disgusting that I can pay RETAIL in the US or UK or wherever, then pay freight, and often insurance, and even if I have to pay GST and duty, I can still get gear for less than 1/2 the price retailers want to gouge us for here.

An example - I just had 3 Hella Turbo marine fans delivered from the USA, cost $225 Aus for all 3, including postage to my door.

Here in Aus you're looking at nearly $200 EACH! And delivery is extra!
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:45   #10
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I have not found my Interphase sonar terribly valuable. I only have horizontal scan, so maybe I'd have more success with a TwinScope. The fact that it can only see forward a distance relative to the depth I think makes it pretty useless for avoiding shoals in shallow water, which is my primary concern. The big transducer also creates turbulence that messes up my paddlewheel.

Times that I use my FLS are not times that I necessarily care about my other instruments (wind, speed, auto, etc), it is when I'm trying to nose into an unfamiliar place, so turning those off doesn't seem that bad. But if the unit lived up to its potential, then I would likely want it on all the time.

I have not had any interference problems with my Raymarine instruments. I have noticed that the Raymarine depthsounder functions in shallower water than the Interphase. The FLS will freak out before I run aground, while the Ray instrument will very accurately measure the 1.5 feet between itself and the bottom of my keels.
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:50   #11
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
There must be a degree of seperation where both will work.

As I said, I have 200kHz transducers on each hull, about 6 m apart, and they both work fine.
Good point. I don't know the frequency of my Raymarine depth transducer, but it is on the other hull from the sonar.
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Old 19-04-2010, 20:20   #12
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There must be a degree of seperation where both will work.
That makes sense, as I am a mono I am very limited to location. The transducers will all have to be located within 250mm of each other. Looks like the best option for me is to turn off the NKE stuff when in shoal water actively looking for obstructions using the Twinscope. Then turning of the Interphase in most other circumstances.

Quote:
The alarm features are pretty useless -- if you reduce the gain enough to avoid lots of false alarms, you can't see anything!
I have heard that as well...a nice theory to pickup non-visible obstructions, does not work in practice.

Thanks all for the feed back

Jack
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Old 19-04-2010, 20:24   #13
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Nope. They look at the value of the items in the package, according to the invoice. If the total is less than $1000 Aus, you won't pay duty or GST.
!
Sen (friggen) sational

I can feel a buying FRENZY coming on now that we are pretty close to parity.
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Old 19-04-2010, 21:22   #14
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I cruised with an interphase probe for years. When the water was 20 feet or less, the unit was unable to forward scan and became a really expensive depth sounder (but it looked cool!).
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Old 19-04-2010, 21:58   #15
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I cruised with an interphase probe for years. When the water was 20 feet or less, the unit was unable to forward scan and became a really expensive depth sounder (but it looked cool!).
Really?
That's when I want it to work

I'm not really that concerned about hitting anything if the depth is 20ft or more as I'll only draw 3ft anyway

Has anyone else had these or heard of these issues?
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