Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-03-2015, 16:24   #1
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Boat: In the market for a Lagoon 56 (seems like the perfect fit)
Posts: 1,477
Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

I'm wondering if there is a device that can be set to scan for objects forward of the boat and that has a reasonable range. I know submarines have such detection technology but I'm wondering if someone has made such a device perhaps based on sonar for pleasure boats.

Any thoughts or ideas on this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Chaya
__________________

__________________
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 16:42   #2
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,405
Images: 1
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Google Scanning Sonar. Expensive.works like underwater radar.Most major mfgrs have made them since WWII,but for comm. fishing,etc.
Yacht versions just starting to show in last few yrs.

Simrad Launches Forward Scanning Sonar, First Integrated With MFDs | | PassageMaker
__________________

__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 17:03   #3
Registered User
 
clownfishsydney's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Lightwave 38' Catamaran
Posts: 305
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

We have a forward scanning sonar, an Interphase Outlook. This can look forward or down like a normal depth sounder. It works well when tracking the bottom ahead.

I am not sure what you might want it for, some people I have seen want to know if it will pick up something like a floating container in the open ocean. I have no idea if it will and hope I never need to see if it does.
__________________
Michael and Kelly
Catlypso - Web Site
Lightwave 38' cat
clownfishsydney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 17:24   #4
Registered User
 
MYTraveler's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 166
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Furuno (and others, most notably Simrad and Wesmar) makes a scanning sonar that can be directed to scan back and forth or up and down in any horizontal or vertical configuration you can imagine. Price, installed is typically $20K +.
__________________
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 17:33   #5
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

The general feeling is that they just aren't ready for prime time yet. The technology is maturing,and I certainly don't falt anyone for having it already the systems just don't do a very good job. The big players in marine electronics are working pretty seriously at it right now and I expect new toys to come to market soon with better capabilities, but for now I wouldn't buy one. Honestly a better option for gunk holing would be a cheap wireless depth sounder mounted on a model boat.

See Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: EchoPilot Platinum FLS, better than expected for a recent review of the technology.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 17:55   #6
Registered User
 
MYTraveler's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 166
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
The general feeling is that they just aren't ready for prime time yet.
I used to have the forward looking Interphase and would agree with your assessment as pertains to that unit and others like it. The Furuno technology is fundamentally different -- a transducer is hydraulically deployed to well below the bottom of the boat and is physically (and automatically) directed back and forth across the area to be scanned. (So, for example, when forward looking, that could be 30 degrees to port, sweeping to 30 degrees to starboard, at a very shallow angle to the horizontal.) I believe the Furuno technology is quite impressive and widely deployed, its biggest limitations being cost and room for the sea chest through which the transducer is deployed.

Attached (clicking on the picture makes it much more viewable) is a screenshot of from my CH-250 scanning 360 degrees around my boat, which is on the end tie of a slip. The main channel basin is on my port side (the left side of the picture), a passing boat and its turbulence can be seen off my port bow, several rows of docks on both sides of the channel, with the various boats occupying those dock, and the sea walls on both sides of the channel can be easily seen, even through the clutter of all of the boat bottoms in between, and notwithstanding the very shallow water. (It is returning meaningful echos more than 20 x the water depth distant.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Scanning Sonar.jpg
Views:	316
Size:	356.9 KB
ID:	98232  
__________________
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 09:18   #7
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Boat: In the market for a Lagoon 56 (seems like the perfect fit)
Posts: 1,477
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Thanks everyone. I'm pleased to see that progress is being made in this field. Yes I'm looking at picking up craft and debris forward of my course. And with a good forward distance to sound alarms so a change of direction can be done either manually or by the autopilot.

When I've created electronics I've always worked backwards from what would be the ultimate product and then set about the R&D to achieve the goal. This has served me well in new product development and has allowed me to develop product light years ahead of others.

But by far most development is done by incremental steps. Innovation based on small advance steps. Which of course leads to a long time before you see anything revolutionary.

Now I'm not about to get my team to start building sonar devices with advanced computer interfaces that uses pattern matching and high definition image processing.

I am pleased to hear that marine equipment manufacturers are working on this product. I just hope that the development curve is more of a revolutionary one than an incremental one.

Much can be learned from existing technology already used by naval defence. But I do know that cutting edge sonar used by the DOD is top secret.

Any way. Thanks everyone for your contribution.
__________________
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 09:31   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Turkey, Beach cat in Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 630
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Another product
3D forward looking sonar
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
meirriba is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 09:35   #9
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,405
Images: 1
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
Thanks everyone. I'm pleased to see that progress is being made in this field. Yes I'm looking at picking up craft and debris forward of my course. And with a good forward distance to sound alarms so a change of direction can be done either manually or by the autopilot.

When I've created electronics I've always worked backwards from what would be the ultimate product and then set about the R&D to achieve the goal. This has served me well in new product development and has allowed me to develop product light years ahead of others.

But by far most development is done by incremental steps. Innovation based on small advance steps. Which of course leads to a long time before you see anything revolutionary.

Now I'm not about to get my team to start building sonar devices with advanced computer interfaces that uses pattern matching and high definition image processing.

I am pleased to hear that marine equipment manufacturers are working on this product. I just hope that the development curve is more of a revolutionary one than an incremental one.

Much can be learned from existing technology already used by naval defence. But I do know that cutting edge sonar used by the DOD is top secret.

Any way. Thanks everyone for your contribution.
If you are interested in pursuing this further,I suggest you speak with Airmar.The underwater transducer is the "limiting" factor in scanning sonar.
The display electronics have been readily available for years.
Airmar Technology Corporation ยป The Leader in Ultrasonic Transducers and Sensing Technology

Also Google MAQ Sonar. Cheers/Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 10:45   #10
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,405
Images: 1
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
Another product
3D forward looking sonar
Thanks for link Mark. Good to see progress being made in "small boat" sonar.In my working life(Marine Electronics),I was spoiled by very expensive scanning sonar systems used by herring purse seiners.
Even in those systems,the limiting distance factor was the sound dome/transducer & frequency.
200Khz will only detect fish to about 40fathoms/240ft/100 mtrs.Just the nature of underwater acoustics.
50 or 28 khz will reach somewhat further,but an expensive,physically large,phased array sound dome is reqd. to focus those freqs into a narrow enough beam,to avoid "bouncing" of signal beam off the surface & bottom,which causes so much clutter.
Throw in the necessity of gyro stabilization reqd to keep the beam in the water column-more expense.
Not condemning any companies attempts to build a useful working sonar for a "small boat" price.Huge market for one in the commercial world,as well as recreational.
Would definitely prevent many groundings.Cheers/Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:08   #11
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
I'm wondering if there is a device that can be set to scan for objects forward of the boat and that has a reasonable range. I know submarines have such detection technology but I'm wondering if someone has made such a device perhaps based on sonar for pleasure boats.

Any thoughts or ideas on this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Chaya
I believe the entire bubble bow of the subs are filled with transducers. Commercial fishing has been using a side scan sonar for years I have no idea on effectiveness, cost or size. Speaking of fishing ships in effect, hunting for massive schools of fish. As fast as technology is advancing today wait a couple of years and they will probably be over the counter electronics with a display the size of what is on your bridge today.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:42   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 156
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Being in the 1000 Islands where the depth goes from 200 feet to 2 feet in matter of a boat length, I had 2 through hull transducers installed.

One is the normal pointing straight down and the other points about 20 degrees forward.

The forward pointing one is connected to a rather cheap depth/fish finder with a depth alarm, so I only look at it when in water I'm not familiar with, or when there's lots of shoals etc.

It's not accurate by a country mile, but it does give me warning when I'm heading into shallow water and is pretty accurate when there is less than 5 feet below.

The system has been excellent for getting into places that we could only dream of previously.

And it is becoming popular, the boat that docks next to me is installing one this spring as well as a few others around the marina.
__________________
1000 islands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:48   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Gozzard, 44CC, 50'
Posts: 160
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

I've had an Interphase sonar scanner , forward and side scan, since 1998. I upgraded it in '09 to the fullcolor display. It works great. In very shallow water it will provide excellent readings but it's signal will confuse your depth sounder. That's not a problem as the unit will provide very accurate depth readings. Only problem is that the company was bought out by Garmin for it's technology and has been discontinued.
__________________
Scrimshaw4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:54   #14
Registered User
 
scuba0_1's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: naples
Boat: 2005 Catalina 350
Posts: 670
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba View Post
Another product
3D forward looking sonar
Nice but heavy price 10000.00

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
scuba0_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2015, 11:57   #15
Registered User
 
scuba0_1's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: naples
Boat: 2005 Catalina 350
Posts: 670
Re: Forward pointing sonar devices for boats?

The more they work the more the price will come down. I would love one on our New boat for sure

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
scuba0_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rope Clutch With Lever Pointing Forward Ocean Girl Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 26-01-2014 23:06
Forward Scanning Sonar ? Wallrat Marine Electronics 31 07-07-2010 04:58
Just Ordered an Interphase v90 Forward-Looking-Sonar Unit Latitude9.5 Marine Electronics 11 26-08-2009 15:55
Forward scanning sonar on a catamaran Roy M Marine Electronics 10 08-07-2008 11:03
Forward Sonar Lynx Forum Tech Support & Site Help 6 27-10-2006 08:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.