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Old 22-05-2015, 16:56   #16
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
Cadence,
I wish to be polite here, but huh?
Your comment seems both way off topic, and sorry to say very bad advice!!! --- If you are not using the EPIRB, but will be soon...such as seasonal sailors, etc. there is NO need at all to "deregister" it!!!
This is obvious to all of us...


--- If you are not using the EPIRB, but "might" use it in the future...such as you sold the boat and are looking for a new boat, and for some reason you kept the EPIRB rather than selling it with the boat....then you would EDIT the registration (not "de-register" it), as there is no longer any boat to register it to...but you would still want owner / contact information to be kept by the authorities (here in the US, that is NOAA), so that should you accidentally activate it, the RCC would have someone to contact to "verify" if there was an actual distress or not!!
This is also obvious to all of us...

Would you want a full-on SAR attempt, with a USCG helo hovering over your house....with all the stress and danger these honorable coasties will be put through, as well as all the expense of what this cost???
My tax $$$$$ being wasted!!
All because you had some odd thought that you should "de-register" it???
Why in the world would you give this advice??


--- If you are not using the EPIRB, and are selling it (such as with the sale of the boat, or on ebay, etc.), then yes...you would "de-register" it....and instruct the new owner to register it ASAP!!
But, this has nothing at all to do with your basement....nor anything to with the topic of this thread...




Again, sorry if I sound rude here....that is not my intent at all....I'm just hoping that my strident words here will be taken in good turn...

Fair winds..

John
Wow! I think you might have jumped on Cadence a bit hard there John. Will wait to hear his reply, but I took what he wrote as just imploring people that if they have no further need for their epirb then they should 'de register' it with the data base/authorities, and hand it in. At least in Australia, we hand them in. Rather than throw them out or leaving them sitting in a basement where one day someone, kids maybe, will turn them on. Which would lead (at least in Australia) to police coming looking for it (and the inconvenience of them finding your hydroponic tomatoe plants in the basement).
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Old 22-05-2015, 17:18   #17
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
Cadence,
I wish to be polite here, but huh?
Your comment seems both way off topic, and sorry to say very bad advice!!! --- If you are not using the EPIRB, but will be soon...such as seasonal sailors, etc. there is NO need at all to "deregister" it!!!
This is obvious to all of us...


--- If you are not using the EPIRB, but "might" use it in the future...such as you sold the boat and are looking for a new boat, and for some reason you kept the EPIRB rather than selling it with the boat....then you would EDIT the registration (not "de-register" it), as there is no longer any boat to register it to...but you would still want owner / contact information to be kept by the authorities (here in the US, that is NOAA), so that should you accidentally activate it, the RCC would have someone to contact to "verify" if there was an actual distress or not!!
This is also obvious to all of us...

Would you want a full-on SAR attempt, with a USCG helo hovering over your house....with all the stress and danger these honorable coasties will be put through, as well as all the expense of what this cost???
My tax $$$$$ being wasted!!
All because you had some odd thought that you should "de-register" it???
Why in the world would you give this advice??


--- If you are not using the EPIRB, and are selling it (such as with the sale of the boat, or on ebay, etc.), then yes...you would "de-register" it....and instruct the new owner to register it ASAP!!
But, this has nothing at all to do with your basement....nor anything to with the topic of this thread...




Again, sorry if I sound rude here....that is not my intent at all....I'm just hoping that my strident words here will be taken in good turn...

Fair winds..

John
John,

No offence taken. Maybe I wasn't plain. I have one I have not had a reason to need in some time. I would hate for effort being expended on an attempt to figure out it was a fluke if accidently set off. For instance a grandchild saying what is this.
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Old 22-05-2015, 20:32   #18
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

(...)

I don't actually think that $500 is at all too much to pay for an EPIRB. This device has a number of 5 cent chips in it, for sure, but the amount of engineering and design which goes in to them is quite substantial.

(...)
OK. But there is quite a long way from 5 cents to 500 bucks.

Somehow, families get cash from governments when they have a new baby. Sailors never get cash when they have a new EPIRB. But the baby money has to be gotten from somewhere ...

I am against sailors funding somebody else's children. I am not sure how about sailors who do have their own. ;-)

b.
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Old 23-05-2015, 21:43   #19
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
John,

Thanks for reposting this. Very helpful reading.

Can you answer or offer an opinion on the difference between epirbs sold in the US and thise sold in say Australia. Being Australian (oi oi oi), I had not realised there was any significant differences until this week. But it 'seems' that 'non water activated' epirbs are not sold in the US, where as they seem to be the most common types sold here in Australia. Is this the case?
Are there restrictions on the type of epirbs sold in the Europe, Asia, SAmerica etc?

.
Anyone got any input? Knowledge around this.
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Old 23-05-2015, 23:45   #20
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Anyone got any input? Knowledge around this.
Actually there is few differences between various nation states. I can't quantify them except to say the following general observations.

EPIRBs and PLBs in Aus (& NZ) must comply with AS/NZS 4280 and this automatically includes COSPAS/SARSAT T.001. There are a fair number of models made by international manufacturers that do not comply although they sometimes make special units for the Aussie market. Likewise some Australian manufacturers make products that do not comply with other nations requirements. GME in particular.

The USA requires FCC approval and presumably other certifications.

Although Australian units must comply with The Radio Communication Act (1992) and can be used under Radiocommunications (Emergency Locating Beacons) Class Licence 2006, all units that comply with AS/NZ 4280 will be suitable.

PLBs are more complex, many (maybe all) USA approved PLBs do not comply with the above radio act; any USA PLB that transmits the letter "P" (in Morse) is not approved in Australia. Canadian Class 2 PLBs aren't required to float where as Australian ones are.

PLBs carried on land are banned in some countries and somewhere I sort of remember that jail time is possible.

Presumably the EU have their own special requirements.

So the short answer is while that the whole GMDSS system is (almost?) worldwide and the COSPAS/SARSAT is seamless around the word, beacons aint beacons.

Of course, any beacon complying with the basic specification COSPAS/SARSAT T.001 (and that is probably all of them) will trigger the system and bells will ring somewhere
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Old 24-05-2015, 02:34   #21
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I wish someone made a really compact, waterproof DSC VHF handheld which could take a long-life lithium battery. I keep a battery tray and vacuum-packed AA batts for my SH handheld in my grab bag.
The smallest one is HX471S - but it has no GPS, which may seem like a problem, but it uses it's NMEA charging cradle to upload ship's position into the unit si in case of emergency you grab the thing and it has your position in it to transmit. But then, it is certainly the smallest one out there.
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Old 24-05-2015, 03:29   #22
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Sea Frog View Post
The smallest one is HX471S - but it has no GPS, which may seem like a problem, but it uses it's NMEA charging cradle to upload ship's position into the unit si in case of emergency you grab the thing and it has your position in it to transmit. But then, it is certainly the smallest one out there.
Not only no GPS, but no long life lithium batteries.

Actually none of the SH handhelds will run on any kind of lithiums -- the voltage is slightly different.

I have the HX851 which has many flaws Waiting and hoping something better appears on the market.
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Old 24-05-2015, 04:57   #23
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Actually none of the SH handhelds will run on any kind of lithiums -- the voltage is slightly different.
Hmmmm, the SH site says:

Packaged with a 1500mAh Lithium-Ion battery, the HX471S will deliver 10-12 hours of operation off a single charge

In addition, you can buy an AA case too.
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Old 24-05-2015, 06:53   #24
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Sea Frog View Post
Hmmmm, the SH site says:

Packaged with a 1500mAh Lithium-Ion battery, the HX471S will deliver 10-12 hours of operation off a single charge

In addition, you can buy an AA case too.
Dockhead means you cannot run the HX851 radio with purchased lithiums in the AA case. The 1500mAh LI battery is rechargeable. But you should keep some fresh batteries for the AA case for emergencies. Dockhead thought lithium batteries would stay fresh longer in the ditch bag but they don't work in that radio. So just keep fresh long life alkaline batteries for emergencies.
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Old 24-05-2015, 17:32   #25
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Actually there is few differences between various nation states. I can't quantify them except to say the following general observations.

EPIRBs and PLBs in Aus (& NZ) must comply with AS/NZS 4280 and this automatically includes COSPAS/SARSAT T.001. There are a fair number of models made by international manufacturers that do not comply although they sometimes make special units for the Aussie market. Likewise some Australian manufacturers make products that do not comply with other nations requirements. GME in particular.

The USA requires FCC approval and presumably other certifications.

Although Australian units must comply with The Radio Communication Act (1992) and can be used under Radiocommunications (Emergency Locating Beacons) Class Licence 2006, all units that comply with AS/NZ 4280 will be suitable.

PLBs are more complex, many (maybe all) USA approved PLBs do not comply with the above radio act; any USA PLB that transmits the letter "P" (in Morse) is not approved in Australia. Canadian Class 2 PLBs aren't required to float where as Australian ones are.

PLBs carried on land are banned in some countries and somewhere I sort of remember that jail time is possible.

Presumably the EU have their own special requirements.

So the short answer is while that the whole GMDSS system is (almost?) worldwide and the COSPAS/SARSAT is seamless around the word, beacons aint beacons.

Of course, any beacon complying with the basic specification COSPAS/SARSAT T.001 (and that is probably all of them) will trigger the system and bells will ring somewhere
Thanks Wotname, very interesting and informative.

Do you know if the manual activation units are banned in the US.
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Old 24-05-2015, 18:56   #26
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

A point about hand held flares. Javier Sanso capsized in the last Vendee Globe ~350 miles(?) south of the Azores. He got into the life raft but was ripped away from Acciona 100% EcoPowered without his ditch bag. The helicopter arrived over Acciona in the dark and Javier was able to signal them with the hand held flares that were packed in the life raft. Perhaps a laser flare would have worked better but without a radio flares of some kind are essential gear packed in the life raft.
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Old 24-05-2015, 19:06   #27
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Thanks Wotname, very interesting and informative.

Do you know if the manual activation units are banned in the US.
No, they are not banned to the best of my knowledge. Any EPIRB purchased in the US must be type approved by the FCC. It must also be registered. Even though totally manual units are allowed I have never seen one that is not also water activated.

Some light reading: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtEpirb
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Old 24-05-2015, 19:32   #28
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
Dockhead means you cannot run the HX851 radio with purchased lithiums in the AA case. The 1500mAh LI battery is rechargeable. But you should keep some fresh batteries for the AA case for emergencies. Dockhead thought lithium batteries would stay fresh longer in the ditch bag but they don't work in that radio. So just keep fresh long life alkaline batteries for emergencies.
It actually uses AAA batteries, according to the owner's manual. I find it odd that a "1.5v" Li from Energizer wouldn't work, they're designed to work in anything that an alkaline battery works in, but I guess the SH radios are too sensitive to voltage. Too bad, those Li batteries are advertised to be 1500 mah and keep their charge for 20 yrs!

One could always buy a couple of extra factory battery packs and vacuum bag those. Maybe recharge and reseal every couple of yrs. They're not as cheap as AAAs, but certainly worth it if it helps one get saved.
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Old 24-05-2015, 20:11   #29
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

Sorry, I forgot it uses AAA.

The reason it doesn't work was covered in another thread. Non-rechargeable lithium batteries (especially small form factor) have a threshold of current where the voltage drops precipitously. When the radio needs maximum current the lithium AAA batteries can't supply the voltage and the radio either shuts down or restarts. In any event, there is information in the documentation of the radio to only use alkaline batteries.

There are 10 year alkaline batteries available. No one should ignore their ditch bag or life raft for more than a few years so this isn't a real hardship IMO.
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Old 24-05-2015, 23:59   #30
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Re: EPIRB's are NOT dead! / EPIRB Activation? What happens/How to improve rescue odds

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No, they are not banned to the best of my knowledge. Any EPIRB purchased in the US must be type approved by the FCC. It must also be registered. Even though totally manual units are allowed I have never seen one that is not also water activated.

Some light reading: Emergency Position Indicating Radiobeacon (EPIRB)
"Even though totally manual units are allowed I have never seen one that is not also water activated", is a contradiction. If they are 'water activated' they are clearly not 'totally manual'.

Seems might have stumbled on something that even the great minds of CF don't have an answer for.
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