Electronics -- System Architecture

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

chala-
You might be best off using a disposable separate CO detector. Apparently, they ALL go bad in 5-7 years and now in residential use, we're starting to see requirements that they be replaced every seven years, regardless of type, testing, etc. So some of the vendors are simply making CO detectors with a "seven year" battery in them, and saying sero maintenance, toss the whole thing after 7 years. (At which point it will go off and tell you to replace it, too.)

I'm planning to keep all main alarms - bilge, gas vapors, CO, exhaust overheat - off the network, separate, and freestanding, so they work whether or not the network is switched on. Battery powered would be ideal, but not finding everything like that.

[chala]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

vendors are simply making CO detectors with a "seven year" battery in them, and saying sero maintenance, toss the whole thing after 7 years. (At which point it will go off and tell you to replace it, too.)

It would be nice to be able to toss it out in seven years.
Merry festive season, Happy New Year and good sailing.

[Dockhead]

Christmas came early! In the form of several large boxes from Defender. Now in what moment of insanity did I imagine that I would bring back a radar dome in my suitcase? I think it will be cheaper to upgrade my ticket to business class than to pay for the excess luggage

First impressions: the B&G gear is gorgeous -- does not seem to be less milspec-like than my old Raymarine RL plotters. Really beautifully made -- both the MFD's and the Triton gauges. OTOH, the Maretron DSM-250, which cost $900, makes a very bad impression, very cheap looking and feeling with nasty switchgear. That's not value for money.

I made a mistake assuming that there would be no N2K cables or connectors. In fact, the plotters and the new autopilot computer all came with quite a lot of Simnet gear, cables, multi-connector boxes, etc. So the design which I did on Maretron's design program does not exactly work, and I'm going to have some extra network cables, power drops, and T-connectors to sell

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Christmas came early! In the form of several large boxes from Defender. Now in what moment of insanity did I imagine that I would bring back a radar dome in my suitcase? I think it will be cheaper to upgrade my ticket to business class than to pay for the excess luggage

First impressions: the B&G gear is gorgeous -- does not seem to be less milspec-like than my old Raymarine RL plotters. Really beautifully made -- both the MFD's and the Triton gauges. OTOH, the Maretron DSM-250, which cost $900, makes a very bad impression, very cheap looking and feeling with nasty switchgear. That's not value for money.

I made a mistake assuming that there would be no N2K cables or connectors. In fact, the plotters and the new autopilot computer all came with quite a lot of Simnet gear, cables, multi-connector boxes, etc. So the design which I did on Maretron's design program does not exactly work, and I'm going to have some extra network cables, power drops, and T-connectors to sell

I've always liked the Simrad carved from solid feel, rather like a good German car.

I notice the units should now be capable of handling generic AIS class B static data. Over N2k so that's that problem solved.
Dave

[twistedtree]

Which of the various options that you outlined did you end up buying?

Are you doing a mix of B&G and Simrad plotters? And if so, how do you deal with charts in the different plotters? Can a chart card be shared across the two plotter brands?

I'll be real interested to hear how you like the Simrad NSS, assuming that's what you ended up getting. I really like them on paper and am considering it for my upcoming boat. I've got NavNet 3D on my current boat and its a love-hate relationship - perhaps more a tollerate-hate relationship. I really think NN3D and MaxSea are trash, but I'm not yet convinced anything else is less trash.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

Which of the various options that you outlined did you end up buying?

Are you doing a mix of B&G and Simrad plotters? And if so, how do you deal with charts in the different plotters? Can a chart card be shared across the two plotter brands?

I'll be real interested to hear how you like the Simrad NSS, assuming that's what you ended up getting. I really like them on paper and am considering it for my upcoming boat. I've got NavNet 3D on my current boat and its a love-hate relationship - perhaps more a tollerate-hate relationship. I really think NN3D and MaxSea are trash, but I'm not yet convinced anything else is less trash.

So, I decided to go with the non-touchscreen B&G Zeus Z8 at the helm, and the touchscreen B&G Zeus T8 at the nav table. These are rebranded Simrad MFD's with added sailing functions. As far as I know, they work transparently with Simrad plotters.

I was going to add a Simrad NSS7 as a secondary MFD in the cockpit and just couldn't find space for it. I somewhat regret not doing that for the nav table but the space went to the Maretron DSM-250 which I think I need as the central control for all the Maretron N2K sensors I have. But it is limited in function and the cost was nearly the same as a full-blown NSS7 plotter! Not sure I made the right decision there.

I won't be able to tell you how it works until next spring after it's all installed and the boat is launched. I have studied the manuals to the point of practically having memorized them, and I think I will love them. I hope so. The units themselves are very beautiful -- military spec like in quality. I'm really looking forward to using them this spring.

The cartography as far as I know is the same as what you use with your Furuno -- Navionics. I have used this cartography on an IPad and INavX and have not liked it as much as the CMap cartography on my old Raymarine RL80/RL70 plotters. But I couldn't go on with the little chart areas of the old plotter -- you have to buy a new chip for every few hundred miles of coast -- bleh. So we'll see how it goes. It will be nice to have the entire British Isles and Atlantic coast of France on one chip, in any case.

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The cartography as far as I know is the same as what you use with your Furuno -- Navionics. I have used this cartography on an IPad and INavX and have not liked it as much as the CMap cartography on my old Raymarine RL80/RL70 plotters. But I couldn't go on with the little chart areas of the old plotter -- you have to buy a new chip for every few hundred miles of coast -- bleh. So we'll see how it goes. It will be nice to have the entire British Isles and Atlantic coast of France on one chip, in any case.

I think one plus with Furuno is that you can get both c-map and Navionics. But there is a negative that goes along with it - all the "standard" navionics and c-map data has to be repackaged into a proprietary format for NN3D. The result is that the updates lag behind some amount. I like that Simrad/B&G use standard Navionics, but it would be even better if they supported both Navionics and C-Map.

It will be great to hear how you like all of it after a year or so. I went with N2K in my current boat similar to what you did, or perhaps slightly more loaded, but not over the top by any stretch. Everything has worked pretty well. I did have a few little oddities, but all turned out the be configuration problems, mostly linked to my misunderstanding about how N2K is supposed to work. I wish there were better tutorial info about how N2K is supposed to work, including configuration tips and problem resolution. Or better yet, tips on problem avoidance. I poked around in the dark more than I would have liked, and incorrectly assumed certain things worked they way they do with ethernet, and they don't. Anyway, I think you will like it, and I plan to use it again on my new boat.

[PeterSailor]

Hi Dockhead,

Did you also received the Zeus T8? Can you share the Install and User Manual? Those are not available yet on B&G website.

Thanks,

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by PeterSailor

Hi Dockhead,

Did you also received the Zeus T8? Can you share the Install and User Manual? Those are not available yet on B&G website.

Thanks,

I did not -- it's not shipping yet. I received only the Z8 so far. I will be back in the States in February -- I sure hope it's shipped by then, or I'll have some trouble.

[PeterSailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I did not -- it's not shipping yet. I received only the Z8 so far. I will be back in the States in February -- I sure hope it's shipped by then, or I'll have some trouble.

Available date is January 2013 on B&G website.

I am also looking at the T8 for my electronic upgrade. I am also looking at the WIFI-1 module and SonicHub. Also need to upgrade the 1988 AM/FM/Casette radio.

I actualy have B&G Hornet 4 and Hecta, both very well maintained from the PO. I am in contact with Tinley Electronics who is in current development for a black box that can be connected in parallel to the sensors (masthead, paddlewheel and depth sounder) to provide those data on the N2K network, while keeping the existing instruments.

Happy Greetings to all...

[svinshallah]

Just a note on the Simrad AP packages. The standard package includes a rudder position feedback sensor that attaches to the AC42. Thus it won't display rudder position unless the AC42 is powered up. They have an optional RPI that connects via Simnet, which will put rudder position data on the N2K backbone all the time.
Rick

[arisatx]

Originally Posted by svinshallah

Just a note on the Simrad AP packages. The standard package includes a rudder position feedback sensor that attaches to the AC42. Thus it won't display rudder position unless the AC42 is powered up. They have an optional RPI that connects via Simnet, which will put rudder position data on the N2K backbone all the time.
Rick

Inshallah:

Yup the RF300 connects directly to the AC42. The RF25 sits on the N2K backbone.

[Dockhead]

I ended up with the B&G RRF rudder reference. I think that's an old pre-Simrad B&G unit. Trying to figure out whether it is compatible with my AC-42.

[PeterSailor]

Zeus Touch operator manual has been released on B&G web site yesterday. It is definitlety my chartplotter choise for this summer.

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by chala

Maybe of interest:
“The maximum number of first generation SeaTalk devices which may be interfaced to the SeaTalk port of a SeaTalk to SeaTalk Converter is five. Should you have additional more than six first generation SeaTalk devices to be interfaced to the system, then one additional SeaTalk to SeaTalk Converter will need to be installed for every five additional first generation SeaTalk devices”
This can be found at:
C95,350 Ais , Digital Radar integrated to Sea Talk 1 with E22158: TURNING OFF AUTO PILOT - Raymarine Technical Forum

Looking through this thread as I thought I might learn something that would help with some networking difficulties that I am trying to work through. Maybe one of you guys can help!!

Recently upgraded the old sea talk auto pilot to a SPX-Sol with an octopus drive unit. Works really well, however I did not realize that you couldn't hook up the auto pilot brain on the NG system due to the controller being strictly sea talk. I have connected the controller now through a seatalk ng converter but as the power and network was always through the auto pilot brain, can I daisy chain the rest of the ST 60+ instruments from the contoller. If so i assume that this would put all the sea talk data on the network. If not, would I have to add another seatalkng converter to accomplish this.

It is not really clear in the Raymarine literature whether you can connect the autopilot to the ng backbone through a spur cable and also connect the sea talk?? The only references I can find says that you cannot put data from the same instruments through both sea talk and ng. The big thing is that I want to be sure both chartplotters (E140W's) connected on the HS and ng networks can see the data from the sea talk devices for redundancy.


Just trying to avoid having to put another converter in the binnacle as there isn/t much room.

Thanks if you can answer!!