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Old 22-02-2013, 11:30   #16
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I got rid of the older Garmin that was on the boat when we bought it because I couldn't buy any river chart cards new or used, searched for 18 months. Bought a used standard horizon mfd & a c map + , then I found a slightly used si-tex open array to add radar. I have about $1900.00 invested & if any part fails I can get it repaired or replaced with another used part to keep the system functional. Buying new is not a option because I prefer something that has a history of performing if treated with the proper care, it doesn't need to be the latest & greatest.
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Old 22-02-2013, 14:05   #17
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

I like the idea of a chartplotter which uses NOAA charts and might even have features added like one adds *apps* to a smart phone. I don't do the route planning thing and never saw the unility as I have plenty of time to figure the next few hours out on the fly as it were. I don't program my GPS to tke me from waypoint to waypoint since I SAIL.. and I don't let the GPS drive my AP either... I do tell AP the heading... Despite the great service an AP provides... I still make the navigation decisions on where to steer.

Frankly I question the GPS - AP interface from a safety point of view. For a long leg you can see your position moving away from the rhumb line (xtrack error) and make a correction. Why one has to remain on a straight course for 15- 20 or more miles with absolutely no deviation is hard to figure out.

If the wind and current conditions are shifting about then you have to trim anyway. This sort of stuff is for power boats.... and my sense is that the captains are often not paying attention as the GPS-AP is taking them to where they want to go.
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Old 23-02-2013, 02:18   #18
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

Lots of good advice, to add further Navigation needs fundamental information so all the connectivity and integration helps little in navigation decisions. For anyone with a working depth, speed steering compass and plotter (essential systems) you have most of what you need to navigate anywhere and AIS and Radar are additional sources of information to help make good decisions. Replacing any of the essential systems should only be considerd when you have a failure or intermittent system causing concerns.
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Old 23-02-2013, 07:41   #19
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

Electronics help immensely towards performing better. Even the most basic GPS units can help optimize choices, much as only few cruising sailors want or care.

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Old 23-02-2013, 12:39   #20
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

The question posed were more about the plethora of choices and is this all worth it? Are we being led to buy more complexity and data than we need? Is the industry failing to support perfectly sound products that are could serve most boaters needs for the foreseeable future, but choosing to manipulate us to buy more and more often?
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Old 23-02-2013, 12:47   #21
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

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Are we being led to buy more complexity and data than we need? Is the industry failing to support perfectly sound products that are could serve most boaters needs for the foreseeable future, but choosing to manipulate us to buy more and more often?
Yes. It's what keeps them in business.
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Old 23-02-2013, 13:01   #22
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

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Originally Posted by defjef View Post
(...) ... (...)
The question posed were more about the plethora of choices and is this all worth it?

It is worth it to those who do it. Otherwise they would not be doing what they do.

Are we being led to buy more complexity and data than we need?

Yes.

Is the industry failing to support perfectly sound products that are could serve most boaters needs for the foreseeable future, but choosing to manipulate us to buy more and more often?

Yes.

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Old 25-02-2013, 09:48   #23
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

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...choosing to manipulate us to buy more and more often?
Of course they want to manipulate us into buying more and more. That's how they grow their business.

In the end, though, each of us makes the choice to allow ourselves to be manipulated or not. The problem that some people have is that they don't consciously think their decisions through. As a result, they allow themselves to be manipulated without ever realizing it.
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Old 25-02-2013, 09:51   #24
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

We sail just fine and safely with:

- paper charts / pencils / dividers / hand bearing compass
- two handheld gps receivers. one in the ditch bag, one wired to the 12v and mounted.
- combo ais receiver / vhf radio, two little wires twisted to the mounted handheld gps.
- old as hell radar
- depth sounder

I'm glad there are people keeping the marine electronics business in business, but I'm also glad I'm not one of them.
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Old 25-02-2013, 09:52   #25
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

Also, we draw <5 amps underway with the fridge cycling, at night.

Mo' gear, mo' problems.
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Old 25-02-2013, 09:56   #26
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

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The question posed were more about the plethora of choices and is this all worth it?
who knows, its make nice pictures and keeps EEs like myself in business. BUY BUy Buy...

Quote:
It is worth it to those who do it. Otherwise they would not be doing what they do.
Sure it is, in general they make a few bob, employ a few souls etc.

Quote:
Are we being led to buy more complexity and data than we need?
Only If you are a sheep.


Quote:
Is the industry failing to support perfectly sound products that are could serve most boaters needs for the foreseeable future, but choosing to manipulate us to buy more and more often?
wheres the evidence of that , Garmin just fixed a 10 year sounder module, Raymarine fixed by old Radar last year and KVH upgraded a 12 year old sat TV system recently.


Lets not do " Im bored with life - yawn yawn , type of stuff"
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Old 25-02-2013, 14:37   #27
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Re: Drowning in New Marine Electronics Technology

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Originally Posted by defjef View Post
The N2K network does seem to tease us with the notion that we can pop the latest and greatest into the network... but yes... it's all very spendy and I doubt the interoperability is there as claimed. But who knows? It seems you have to be a guinea pig and find out on your own.
Guinea pig? N2K has been in active use for over a decade and there are thousands and thousands of recreational boats out there using it. It is extremely easy to get first hand accounts of usage, reliability and interoperability. Just walk your docks, ask on a forum or google a couple of blogs.

Yes, for a typical boat, a six year old can wire up a N2K network and one can drop any current N2K instrument onto it and mix at will. We have components from 11 different manufacturers in our N2K system and they all talked to each other, passed data and interoperated seamlessly from the first time I powered up the system onward.

N2K on recreational boats is far easier to setup, troubleshoot and has more interoperability than 0183 ever did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
And how about some standardization of cabling and pin assignments?
These are standardized on N2K instrumentation and equipment, cabling and connectors. Even Raymarine has capitulated and their new equipment is coming with standard connections and buses.

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Old 25-02-2013, 16:11   #28
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Michael,

WOW... you are keeping current.. pun intended.... What has the approximate cost of these upgrades? You've done the work yourself?
The first upgrade was about $5000 including Navionics charts for the Pacific, the second was $1500 less $500 I got for the old Radar and the third was $1000 less $150 I got for the old AIS and the forth was $600 including NMEA 2000 cabling.

I've done all the work myself which helps when troubleshooting inevitable connection issues.
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