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Old 29-03-2018, 16:59   #1
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Do I really need more than my KISS ground

I elected o go the easier route and purchased a KISS ground for my old SEA 222 SSB when I used the radio tonight on 20m made contact over 1100 miles. Should I have any reason to believe that had I went through all the older meathods of running copper to Dynaplate or all the other time consuming methods that the performance of the radio would be that much better?
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:55   #2
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

Yes! A real ground! just joking there have been tonnes of debate trolling dispute on tis topic.
KISS is one of the easier solutions but probably not the best. A good solution if you want to invest some $150 (actual price?) and no more hassle.

Look up the other threads.

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Old 03-04-2018, 06:21   #3
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

Most sailors and lots of ham radio folks often confuse "ground" and "counterpoise". The KISS is the latter which is what dictates the efficacy of your radiated power. Supplementing that with additional counterpoise by adding stuff won't hurt but it likely won't help much either. And mis-using a dynaplate (which is designed and intended as a ground) for RF counterpoise purpose serves only to make the user feel like he did something of value.

Antenna modeling programs exist with which you can play which show no discernible difference between artificial and actual counterpoise designs. As a ham of over 50 years, I have done more than my share of tinkering with various counterpoise methods comparing results to predicted modeling patterns. The results are consistent - that using artificial counterpoise like the KISS is similar to the more traditional methods of capaacitative coupling through the hull.

In other words,you are looking for a solution to a non-problem.
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Old 03-04-2018, 15:40   #4
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

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Most sailors and lots of ham radio folks often confuse "ground" and "counterpoise". The KISS is the latter which is what dictates the efficacy of your radiated power. Supplementing that with additional counterpoise by adding stuff won't hurt but it likely won't help much either. And mis-using a dynaplate (which is designed and intended as a ground) for RF counterpoise purpose serves only to make the user feel like he did something of value.



In other words,you are looking for a solution to a non-problem.
This is nice to hear, the radio is grounded to a Dynaplate with the Kiss as counterpoise. I have two radios grounded to the same Dynaplate is there any problem with this setup?
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Old 03-04-2018, 23:12   #5
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

If you have both the KISS and a sea water ground connected to the radio, I don't think you can separate the two systems in terms of analyzing performance. Does not mean either o ne is more effective... just can't tell which one is doing the job, or if there is a synergistic effect of using them both. Bad science!

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Old 04-04-2018, 08:21   #6
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

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If you have both the KISS and a sea water ground connected to the radio, I don't think you can separate the two systems in terms of analyzing performance. Does not mean either o ne is more effective... just can't tell which one is doing the job, or if there is a synergistic effect of using them both. Bad science!

Jim
If you wanted to measure this scientifically, you could use an RF current probe (there are clamp-on probes made for this). Measure the current in each of the ground paths.

The issue with the KISS, or counterpoises in general, is that they are frequency-dependant. What works great on one band may be marginal on another. Fortunately the tuner can usually compensate for this but there may be more loss at some frequencies than you might have with a good seawater ground.

As for connecting multiple radios to one counterpoise, that has me concerned. I haven't seen any measurements, but in theory there can be some fairly high voltages at the tuner-end of a counterpoise ground (at certain frequencies). How will this affect the not-in-use tuner or radio? This may also be an issue with a more traditional seawater ground system, but it seems less of a problem. These are just my thoughts, not based on practical experience with shared grounds, so my concerns may be unwarranted.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:37   #7
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

I have two radios in the nav station, an Icom RC 75 reveiver and a Sea222 Tranceiver, the radios ground wires are both run to the same large Dynaplate, the SSB's KISS counterpoise is connected the lug on antenna tuner. Both utilize backstay antenna, isolating each radio with a Diawa switch. First and only test transmission reached a party in Chippawa Falls, Wi, from the Hudson River in NY.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:06   #8
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

The OP signature line puts his home port on the Hudson River. My understanding (from asking similar questions) is that the Dynaplate won't do much good as an RF ground while in fresh water... ?
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Old 04-04-2018, 14:16   #9
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Re: Do I really need more than my KISS ground

One other point: your single experience of a successful contact with the midwest really means little. When conditions are right, it takes an astonishingly small amount of radiated power to make such contacts.

For instance, on our morning cruisers net on 40 meters, we have a chap who likes to play with QRP (very low power) transmitters. He often checks in running less than one watt, and at times makes contact from Queensland to Tasmania, distances similar to your example. My point is that a single medium distance QSO on 20 meters does not mean that your system is optimized or even very good at all. Of course, it could be, but youhave not proven this as yet!

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