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Old 19-11-2015, 17:52   #91
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

Garmin Radar overlay if you were turning would be a little off, but if you weren't, it was very close. I used it 8 or 10 miles or so out to see if someone was anchored at a dive spot I was going to and it worked well for that, also at night it was nice to know if that Radar blip was a buoy or a boat close by, I liked the overlay, so much so that if I stay with this B&G, I'll probably pop for the heading sensor to make it work.
Then I'll have what, four or five little boxes for the B&G, where my old 740S had none?

One bad thing about Garmin is they quit supporting equipment pretty quick, I think the 740 has been obsolete and no longer supported for a couple of years now?


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Old 20-11-2015, 03:59   #92
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

I HIGHLY recommend a heading sensor. You won't have MARPA, current and drift, or be able to use any of the Zeus sailing functionality without one. And while using COG may work OK for basic things like determining if someone is at your dive spot, it will fail miserably for actual important cruising use like determining collision potential at 3am on a dark night, trying to determine a safe coastal approach with bad charts, determining if your current set is putting you close to danger in low visibility, etc.

The heading sensor on your AP doesn't have any output at all? If not, that is a disadvantage of that type.

Other than not having an internal GPS like your Garmin (which isn't really an advantage IMO), what other little boxes does the Zeus require that the Garmin did not? I assume the Garmin did not have a built-in compass or depth or speed or wind, etc?

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Old 20-11-2015, 04:16   #93
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
...Other than not having an internal GPS like your Garmin (which isn't really an advantage IMO), what other little boxes does the Zeus require that the Garmin did not?...
The Zeus plotters do have internal GPS.
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Old 20-11-2015, 05:25   #94
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

Going from memory here and I'm not at the boat, but i think there was a box for the Radar, and I want to think some other box, I thought make a digital to analog converter or something, and of course the Wifi box. I remember during the install there were a lot of boxes and connections, I view every box and connection as a potential problem.
The Garmin had the Radar dome that plugged directly into the plotter, no additional boxes or connections.
I'd disagree on needing a heading sensor to determine safety, Maybe for MARPA, yes, but I can tell if a shore or another boat is going to be a safety concern with a Radar screen alone. Overlay is nice, I like it, like a bottom machine, but necessary?
I also believe to add a heading sensor, I need yet another box as well as the heading sensor to network the sensor.

With all these different boxes etc., the B&G system is probably more capable and flexible, people like Dockhead that have super sophisticated electronic systems networked in multiple ways probably love it, people like me that like to just plug something is and have it work right out of the box, not so much.

Vesper AIS for example, hook it to the antenna via a splitter and provide it with power, your done, I like stuff like that.

The CPT is as simple as it could be, another one of those provide it with power, your done kind of devices, it accepts no input, nor any output.

Assuming you wanted a GOOD heading sensor, maybe for an eventual auto pilot installation, which one will work with the B&G? I still think I have to add a box, maybe because the Wifi box took up the available network plugs?

Garmin had an excellent bottom machine built in if you got the "S" model, I believe the S means sounder.
Now I hope with all the additional expense and complexity the B&G is a more capable system, but the Garmin was as easy as it could be in every respect, and for people that just want to use something, that is a strong selling point
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Old 20-11-2015, 05:44   #95
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

The smaller B&G units sometimes have more integrated modules then the larger ones. For instance the Touch 7 & 8 has internal echosounder modul, but not the T12, and the Vulcan has integrated WIFI (which I find it ridiculous not beeing implemented at least in the Zeus2.)
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Old 20-11-2015, 06:12   #96
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

I have the little 7' touch, I don't understand why the little inexpensive ones come with built in sounders, but the bigger ones don't.
I agree with the Wifi, it should be built in, I think Raymarine and maybe a few other do?
The Wifi is from my perspective a very valuable tool, I literally just ordered the Ipad Pro with my remaining Amex points to use it as a big screen plotter down below, I really like being able to move around inside the boat and see and control the plotter at the helm.
I wonder if RAM has a mount for it yet, all I need is the tray it sits in, I have several RAM mounts now and they are modular of course so parts interchange
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Old 20-11-2015, 06:34   #97
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

I guess there are several reasons for things not being integrated. One is that the integrated parts are less powerful and versatile, meaning they might be good enough for the smaller boats using the small units, but will performe badly on larger vessels.
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Old 20-11-2015, 08:06   #98
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Going from memory here and I'm not at the boat, but i think there was a box for the Radar, and I want to think some other box, I thought make a digital to analog converter or something, and of course the Wifi box. I remember during the install there were a lot of boxes and connections, I view every box and connection as a potential problem.
The Garmin had the Radar dome that plugged directly into the plotter, no additional boxes or connections.
I'd disagree on needing a heading sensor to determine safety, Maybe for MARPA, yes, but I can tell if a shore or another boat is going to be a safety concern with a Radar screen alone. Overlay is nice, I like it, like a bottom machine, but necessary?
I also believe to add a heading sensor, I need yet another box as well as the heading sensor to network the sensor.

With all these different boxes etc., the B&G system is probably more capable and flexible, people like Dockhead that have super sophisticated electronic systems networked in multiple ways probably love it, people like me that like to just plug something is and have it work right out of the box, not so much.

Vesper AIS for example, hook it to the antenna via a splitter and provide it with power, your done, I like stuff like that.

The CPT is as simple as it could be, another one of those provide it with power, your done kind of devices, it accepts no input, nor any output.

Assuming you wanted a GOOD heading sensor, maybe for an eventual auto pilot installation, which one will work with the B&G? I still think I have to add a box, maybe because the Wifi box took up the available network plugs?

Garmin had an excellent bottom machine built in if you got the "S" model, I believe the S means sounder.
Now I hope with all the additional expense and complexity the B&G is a more capable system, but the Garmin was as easy as it could be in every respect, and for people that just want to use something, that is a strong selling point
It's really not hard to hook up a simple NMEA2000 network. The advantages over a single-box solution are very many. You can mix and match components, choosing the best value or performance you want, and it something breaks, you only have to replace the component which broke, instead of the whole box. Stick with it and you'll be fine. Your network is very simple and should not be hard to get working right.

Your autopilot needs heading data, and the quality of the pilot's functioning is highly dependent on the quality of heading data. You have three ways of getting heading data into your network:

1. Get heading data out of your pilot and into your network. I guess 99% of autopilots made in the last 20 years output heading data in NMEA0183 or something like SeaTalk. Your Zeus will accept 0183 data directly (simple two-wire hookup), and there are cheap adapters for the proprietary systems.

2. Add a heading sensor to your network and forget about it. Leaving the pilot alone. You can use either an NMEA2000 one or an NMEA0183 one.

3. Add a GOOD heading sensor to your network, and get that data into your pilot to make that work better, too. Whether this is feasible depends on what pilot you have.


A really simple and cheap solution for heading is the Simrad GS25 heading and GPS unit. You get an absolutely superior next generation GPS which also receives the Russian GLONASS system, and a heading sensor, for $200. One small unit and one wire hookup. The heading data is not very high quality so not good enough for autopilot. The less good heading data makes a noticeable difference in how overlay works, and MARPA will not work very well. So maybe not the best solution, but certainly the cheapest and simplest, and maybe good enough for what you want to do.

For option 3, the best choice these days is the Airmar H2183. This is 3-dimensionally gyro stabilized and gives very accurate, stable heading data which greatly improves pilot function, radar overlay, MARPA.


I agree with you that radar overlay (or North-up, which also needs heading) is not any kind of essential thing for radar, but it's nice to have. It's nice for watchkeeping if for some reason you need to have the plotter on map display. Radar overlay is also convenient for using the radar for navigation, as you get an instant comparison with the chart.


I would come help you with this myself if I find myself in your neighborhood. It would take no more than a couple of hours to get your system sorted out once and for all.
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Old 20-11-2015, 08:31   #99
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

Re. the Garmin HD radar unit, I added the Raymarine rate gyro($800) to supplement the Flux Gate Compass for proper heading info on my previous boat.
I also had the Garmin 4208 MFD. All the wiring was with NEMA 0183 with too small gauge wiring. one had to line up the right colors for transmitters and receivers, a real pain, not simple.

With all B&G on my present boat a Rate Gyro AC42 is installed Instead of a flux Gate Compass. With the latest Zeus2 software (V3), every thing works as expected with the G4 radar and RI-10 box. with MEMA 2000 it was just plug into multiple port stripes.
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Old 20-11-2015, 08:49   #100
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

I've got to integrate everything, I truly will maybe hire someone to do it, I need to get the ST-60 data onto NMEA 2000 and tie in the plotter of course, but also the AIS and VHF and even the Sat TV will benefit from knowing lat /long and heading.
I did NMEA 2000 on my last boat, (small powerboat) but all it integrated was the engine and fuel tank with the Garmin 740S

RC42 is like $500 and the next higher is over $3K? Which is ridiculous, I can get an honest to God full aviation AHARS for less than that.
But I think there is an interface box I need as well as I think the Wifi box used to only open port?
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Old 20-11-2015, 09:21   #101
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I've got to integrate everything, I truly will maybe hire someone to do it, I need to get the ST-60 data onto NMEA 2000 and tie in the plotter of course, but also the AIS and VHF and even the Sat TV will benefit from knowing lat /long and heading.
I did NMEA 2000 on my last boat, (small powerboat) but all it integrated was the engine and fuel tank with the Garmin 740S

RC42 is like $500 and the next higher is over $3K? Which is ridiculous, I can get an honest to God full aviation AHARS for less than that.
But I think there is an interface box I need as well as I think the Wifi box used to only open port?
Don't bother with the Simrad compass. The Airmar one is far better. Read about it here: Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Airmar H2183 compass, best in class?

It costs about $650 with the cables. See for example: Airmar H2183 Heading Sensor




You don't have "open ports" with NMEA2000. You just "t" them into the backbone, in any quantity (up to a far greater number than you will need to worry about).

It's really, really easy and no need to hire anyone. It's at most a two-beer job. The only potentially hard part of a simple NMEA2000 network is physically pulling the cables, in some cases, depending on access.

The radar box needs an NMEA 2000 connection, and you hook up the compass to the same backbone. Very simple.
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Old 20-11-2015, 09:30   #102
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post

RC42 is like $500 and the next higher is over $3K? Which is ridiculous, I can get an honest to God full aviation AHARS for less than that.
But I think there is an interface box I need as well as I think the Wifi box used to only open port?
FWIW,
Garmin A/P system now uses AHARS.
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Old 01-12-2015, 12:10   #103
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

I am going to hop on this thread as the question the OP asked is exactly the one I was going to ask.

Firstly, a thank you to everyone for sharing their knowledge on here. I learned more in the nearly 100 posts on this thread and a couple of others than I would ever learn going on web sites and reading brochures.

Like most of the budget minded folks here, I am leaning to the B&G Zeus Touch T12 Touchscreen Multifunction Display with Broadband Sounder which yesterday at Defender was $1300 but I see it is back to $1500 today. I would also like to pair it with a 4G sounder.

Couple of questions:
- Do the people advocating for a newer, faster but smaller unit over the older, larger one use it as a plotter / radar / sounder at once. Just seems like each window would be too small on a 9" screen (It's going up on the bridge, so I have lots of room)

- I'm a power boater so don't need the sailboat features (sailsteer etc.). Is there a Simrad version for around the same price? Also, is there any 'powerboat' features that are useful that I would be missing on the B&G unit? Although I couldn't guess what they would be.

- Ideally I would like to do this in the spring as my life is pretty busy right now. Does anyone know if they are clearing the last few of these out now or if they will still be around in the spring?

- Am I right in thinking that there are enough ports on the back of the T-12 for the radar, sounder module and Go Free WiFi with out needing a network?

- edit to add: Has anyone found a similar deal in Canada? I haven't been able to.

Thanks again......
Gregg
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:09   #104
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

Gregg,
I don't know where on the Defenders site you are looking for the B&G Zeus Touch T12, but here is a link to the Defenders site that shows it for $1199.00.

Also from my understanding, and I wish others with "hands on experience" would chime in, these are "new" older models with a slower processor.
Which means that they "might" render charts slower. So I've read.

I have a Zues Touch T7 on one of my sailboats, and with the exception to some of the issues that have been mentioned in this thread, love it!
Rendering speed doesn't seem to be a big deal. But then again, I don't have a newer model to compare it to.

FWIW, Defenders also has some great deals on combination Zeus/Radar packages, Which are what I'm looking into.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:18   #105
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Re: Difference between B&G Zeus Touch and Zeus2?

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Gregg,
...Also from my understanding, and I wish others with "hands on experience" would chime in, these are "new" older models with a slower processor.
Which means that they "might" render charts slower. So I've read.
...
Do you mean that the Zeus Touch 12 being sold now has a slower processor than the Zeus Touch 12 that was sold a while back? If so, where have you heard that? And was that user experience, or someone with actual knowledge of the hardware inside?
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