Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-07-2016, 10:32   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 68
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Go on to Ebay or something like that....there are butt connectors exactly for that purpose and make you life much easier. Basically they come in two ways: the standard tube where you strip the wire and then crimp and now they have a strip less crimp where you just insert the two ends and use a pliers to crimp.
I've used them both and they work well.
__________________

__________________
svinvictus2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 10:37   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 11,372
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Had the same question a couple of years ago and started a thread on this. Here's a link to five pages of comments.

How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 10:55   #18
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 4,782
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromiowa View Post
I saw this article at panbo.com.



Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: 3M Scotchloks, is my love so wrong?

I got mine from Amazon
I recall them as jell caps. the phone companies used then for small gauge wire.
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 11:23   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,087
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

As for why the antenna is not working, my money would be on an error wiring it to the GPS. If you could tell us what devices you have, and what wires you connected to what wires, I should be able to help.

My NMEA0183 goes through a connector block, and works just fine. But it took several permutations of connections to get it to do so. One reason why a screwed terminal block with ring terminals is so handy - you can keep trying.

The most common error is connecting signal + and - but not the ground (people think that - is ground but it is frequently not. It is often an inverted signal). There must be ground continuity between the two devices.
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 11:24   #20
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Boat: 41' yawl
Posts: 524
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Take your GPS antenna thingy to a knowledgeable friend, or to a marine electronics shop. Anyone with a bench supply and an oscilloscope should be able to tell you whether the unit is working or not. And could replace the wire if necessary.
Embarassingly enough, I'm actually an electrical engineer. But figuring out what "gave" when I yanked on that wire, and reattaching it, making sure it was all weathertight again, etc, was a more irritating prospect then shelling out for a new GPS antenna.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Without furthering the debate (I hope) the ABYC rules and guidelines are intended mainly for wire carrying more than trivial current, or at risk of carrying heavy current. In the case of something like the GPS unit, which connects directly to an instrument or processor (which also provides fused power to the GPS unit), and only requires thin wire to carry signal or a small current, carefully-made soldered splices covered in heatshrink would be acceptable in my opinion. (disclaimer. YMMV )
I think in this case, with a wire that can see some wiggling, the idea that a wire will be more likely to fatigue and break at a solder joint than at a crimp prevailed. Do I know for certain that this is true? No. It was just my rationale, and didn't have anything to do with current or heat, just mechanical resilience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
But anyways, what are you connecting to? It sounds like you're just splicing one line to another? For a permanent connection I might choose something like a cap splice (twist the wires together then crunch the cap onto that)


...or take any red lug (#18 to #22), crimp that over the twisted wires, cut the lug blade off, then put some heatshrink over all that

... or those phone "button" splices already described.

If there's any chance you want to disconnect at the splice, you could put a 3-pin connector of some type there. Check automotive or electronic stores for options (eg Molex, Panduit, Amplok).

Thanks for this... I'll look into some of these options down the road. But now the question is simply: What's the best way to attach a fork terminal to a tiny wire?

(But to answer your question about what's being connected to what... The antenna is supposed to be wired to a terminal block in the boat. This allows disconnection of the antenna when the mast it is placed on is removed from the boat. Last year I forgot to disconnect the antenna from the terminal block, so the yard was pleasant enough to just cut the wire where it exits the boat. First attempt was trying to fix that snip with butt connectors. In doing so, I likely broke the antenna when I yanked on the wire. Next attempt will be to replace the whole run of wire, and the antenna, and properly attach the ends to fork terminals attached to the terminal block in the boat.)


__________________
chris95040 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 11:27   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,087
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Did you connect cable sheath to cable sheath (ground continuity)?
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 11:34   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,087
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

"But now the question is simply: What's the best way to attach a fork terminal to a tiny wire?"

If you have proper crimper, and use the correct size terminals, they crimp just fine. At that size of wire, I think the strain relief from adhesive heat shrink is important, so either use the terminals with adhesive heat shrink built in, or add some of your own.

BTW, fork terminals are not recommended by ABYC unless they are the "flanged fork" type which retain themselves. Or just use ring terminals.
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 11:46   #23
Registered User
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34, "Shoal Survivor"
Posts: 3,607
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

I assume we are going to a larger wire, probably #16. I did some testing on this for an article (fatugie machine), and the simplest + strongest method for most folks is is this:

  • Slide a 16/14 butt connector up the #16 wire.
  • twist the 22 and 16 wires together parallel.
  • Slide the connector back over and crimp on the large side only.
  • Heat shrink. Many of the suggest methods do not allow this, and small wires really need it.
Since the combination is about #14 it fits and is nice and tight. Easy, takes only seconds, and nothing you don't already have. Outlasts solder, both fatigue and corrosion (I tested both).
__________________
"Climbing (sailing) is like fun, only different."

Tom Pattey, Scottish ice climber



http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 11:54   #24
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Boat: 41' yawl
Posts: 524
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
Did you connect cable sheath to cable sheath (ground continuity)?
Arg!!! Now that you mention it, I don't think I did. There is an unshielded wire in the bundle that I connected, and I'd assume that makes contact with the cable sheath, but that's not necessarily the case...
__________________
chris95040 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 12:02   #25

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 12,167
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

I would say the "phone company" button-type connectors are best for this job. If only because they normally are filled with a silicon jelly, which keeps out all moisture, prevents oxidation, and ensures a good electrical connection far longer than any "dry" crimp or splice will do on a boat. Fairly cheap and doesn't require any special tool, making it a real no-brainer, too.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 12:03   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,087
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Sometimes they include a ground wire, sometimes they don't, it's all guesswork without knowing more about the devices and the wiring. I can't see it hurting to connect the cable sheaths together, though.

Here is the manual for the 19x :

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS19x_HVS_INST_ML.pdf

It shows the black wires as being the grounds, so black to black should complete the ground circuit.

Edit : the interesting bit about the diagrams on page 4 is that one contradicts the other, as far as wire colours go! All I can say is good luck.
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 12:13   #27
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 1,203
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

I've been crimping wire for about 50 years. I have an expensive pair of crimping pliers. Yet I still have the ends come loose occasionally. I have no idea what I am doing wrong.
For some time I soldier everything. I think in an environment where corrosion is common, soldier solves many problems before they start.
__________________
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 12:23   #28
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Full time cruising. Currently in the Med.
Boat: Aluminium yacht
Posts: 10,044
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

A good method of joining wires, especially conductors with multiple thin wires, is to stagger the connections. This reduces any hard inflexible spots caused by all the wires joining at the same point (although the cable should still be supported either side of the joint).

It also eliminates the bulk of most other joining methods. With care and if you solder the connections the wire is almost no thicker over the joint despite multiple layers of heat shrink.

The staggering of the connections also ensures that even if the internal insulation (heat shrink) is compromised the connection will not short out. The bare connectors cannot touch each other even with no insulation, because they are physically separated.

Note the connections are staggered which means cutting each of the individual wire a slightly different length.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	212.5 KB
ID:	128034  
__________________
Our custom built cutter rigged sloop is for sale:
48' Aluminium Bluewater Cruiser For Sale

Mermaids & Anchors
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 13:48   #29
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Boat: 41' yawl
Posts: 524
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
A good method of joining wires, especially conductors with multiple thin wires, is to stagger the connections. This reduces any hard inflexible spots especially when combined with heat shrink (although the wire should still be supported either side of the joint). It also reduces the bulk. With care and if you solder the connections the wire is almost no thicker over the joint despite multiple layers of heat shrink.

The staggering of the connections also ensures that even if the internal insulation (heat shrink) is compromised the connection will not short out. The bare connectors cannot touch because they are physically separated.

Note the connections are staggered which means cutting each of the individual wire a slightly different length.
This is an awesome idea.
__________________
chris95040 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2016, 19:42   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: Chung Hwa Boat Builders, Magellan 36
Posts: 154
Re: Crimping teeny tiny wires

I strip double the length I need the double the wire back on itself and twist it on itself. usually works with a good crimper
__________________

__________________
foufou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Connecting REALLY TINY wires (around #26) sailingharry Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 21 26-02-2014 20:57
How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires skipmac Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 72 26-03-2013 12:53
Teeny, Tiny Letters imagine2frolic Off Topic Forum 3 04-10-2011 09:10
N-Type Crimping instructions Curtis Marine Electronics 4 06-05-2011 00:51
ANCOR MARINE Crimping Tool 0n sale ronsunni Marine Electronics 0 25-08-2008 15:44


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.