Confused. Should I buy a Raymarine E7 chart plotter? or just stick with a IPAD??

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Kenomac, My comment about UFO was not directed at yourself nor the argument, but the way the argument was being put forward by the one poster.

All modern ipad's use 'assisted gps'.. This is a good thing. It's a positive modern development. YES, they have a built in GPS antenna. Not disputing that. But the reason they can so quickly come up with a location is because unlike dedicated gps ariel's used in MFD's and radio's, they also (in addition) have cellular assistance. Which then speeds things up. Again, this is a good thing. It's not an indication of having an 'old' ipad.

Our Ipads are not connected to cellular service and work just fine offshore.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Hey, where will you be in four weeks time? I'd like to see if we can meet up on our way coming or going from Montenegro. I'd like to see your new drone.

Ken

Not sure yet. We are Corfu and will be heading to Turkey, but I am waiting on a replacement water heater that still needs to be made to order and shipped from the UK to Corfu. We will cruise locally until it's delivered to the marina and installed. I'm hoping that it will be here in 2 weeks (but it never works that way). Hopefully we'll be in the Zakynthos region in 4 weeks before we head to Corinth.

We'll be navigating there with the e7's, viewing the one in the cockpit from all angles even with my polar sunnies on, not worrying about the screen turning off, sitting in front of the helm unless I'm sailing her myself and if needed with the radar overlaid with the map and AIS

[american]

Timing of this thread is great - I'm just back from 3 weeks sailing back-and-forth between Thailand and Malaysia, during which time I decided to upgrade from using an iPad for (cockpit) navigation to a dedicated MFD - strongly considering the eS75. Why the decision?

I've been sailing with an iPad mini as the cockpit "chart plotter" for 3+ years now. It's contained within a LifeProof case, has dedicated (semi-waterproof) charging at the wheel, is mounted on a RAM mount, and gets its GPS signal from a blue-tooth connected BadElf (which resides inside the boat, under a portlight.

Never had much issue with it before - aside from the occasional time when rain got on the screen, making it impossible to scroll/zoom. This trip... things were a bit different. We were hit by a nasty squall, 35kt winds, 4m waves, lasting about 4 hours. During this time the iPad was completely useless - was blown from its mount a few times, unusable (due to water on the screen), and had to be disconnected from charging (raining sideways).

There was a point in the middle of all this where I said, "This is nuts." I felt we really could have used a dedicated MFD in the cockpit. All other outings - 99% of the other hours spent on the boat - never felt this way. So, I found my exception to the general feeling that the iPad was enough.

Aside from the issues listed above, which we overcame by going inside to check the nav station mounted Garmin, I was also wishing for a better night viewing mode, and radar overlay. I've got radar on the boat, but again it requires going inside to view it. Anyway, enough of an experience to consider an upgrade

So... still doing research, considering what comes next. But this thread has been informative, timely, and as usual, entertaining.

[Kenomac]

American,

There actually is one ipad case I know of and own which takes care of the problem you experienced. It's the Aryca waterproof/shockproof case which has a silicone type plastic film over the ipad screen that allows it to be used even when submerged. The Lifeproof nuud case does not allow this, because the ipad screen needs to be dry. Our previous Lifeproof case also had a plastic screen.

But 99.999% of the time, the ipads work great. During a storm or heavy rain, we navigate from under the protection of the sprayhood and sometimes from the Nav station.

[Kenomac]

Try this with your marine grade helm mounted chartplotter.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=59vgWOCVk84

[american]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

American,

There actually is one ipad case I know of and own which takes care of the problem you experienced. It's the Aryca waterproof/shockproof case which has a silicone type plastic film over the ipad screen that allows it to be used even when submerged. The Lifeproof nuud case does not allow this, because the ipad screen needs to be dry. Our previous Lifeproof case also had a plastic screen.

But 99.999% of the time, the ipads work great. During a storm or heavy rain, we navigate from under the protection of the sprayhood and sometimes from the Nav station.

Thanks for the tip, great to know! Will grab one of those ASAP.

I agree iPads work great 99.9% of the time.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by american

Thanks for the tip, great to know! Will grab one of those ASAP.

I agree iPads work great 99.9% of the time.

I purchased two Aryca cases off ebay last month for only $12 each. Shipping brought the total to $17 each.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Try this with your marine grade helm mounted chartplotter.

I'm pretty sure if you put our marine grade helm mounted chartplotter into one if these it would stand up pretty well.

How about you put your domestic iPad on a ram at the helm without one, and see how well it stands up

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

American,

There actually is one ipad case I know of and own which takes care of the problem you experienced. It's the Aryca waterproof/shockproof case which has a silicone type plastic film over the ipad screen that allows it to be used even when submerged. The Lifeproof nuud case does not allow this, because the ipad screen needs to be dry. Our previous Lifeproof case also had a plastic screen.

But 99.999% of the time, the ipads work great. During a storm or heavy rain, we navigate from under the protection of the sprayhood and sometimes from the Nav station.

The designer and manufacturer of Navionics, the most popular charting software for iPhone and iPad, declares these devices are not sufficiently reliable to use as a primary navigation tool.

Obviously you feel you have too much invested in this to change your position.

I hope others are not harmed as a result of your ill-advised decisions and promotion to follow suit.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

The designer and manufacturer of Navionics, the most popular charting software for iPhone and iPad, declares these devices are not sufficiently reliable to use as a primary navigation tool.

Obviously you feel you have too much invested in this to change your position.

I hope others are not harmed as a result of your ill-advised decisions and promotion to follow suit.

And I hope you don't suffer from sunstroke whilst attempting to navigate under the hot sun using yesterday's technology.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

The designer and manufacturer of Navionics, the most popular charting software for iPhone and iPad, declares these devices are not sufficiently reliable to use as a primary navigation tool.

Obviously you feel you have too much invested in this to change your position.

I hope others are not harmed as a result of your ill-advised decisions and promotion to follow suit.

Nope. I went through their entire website and this is what Navionics "declared."

"Navionics has certified several Android models where the app is designed to load and operate correctly with an OS of 4.0 or higher. We cannot guarantee flawless operation or provide support for non-certified devices."

Maybe you should also inform the folks on this thread that you're a marine electronics installer and Navionics and other mobile device apps represent a financial threat, before lashing out at people like me who disagree with you.

Here's the entire webpage off the Navionics website if anyone cares to read it:
http://www.navionics.com/sites/defau...ty_guide_0.pdf

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Nope. I went through their entire website and this is what Navionics "declared."

"Navionics has certified several Android models where the app is designed to load and operate correctly with an OS of 4.0 or higher. We cannot guarantee flawless operation or provide support for non-certified devices."

Maybe you should also inform the folks on this thread that you're a marine electronics installer and Navionics and other mobile device apps represent a financial threat, before lashing out at people like me who disagree with you.

Here's the entire webpage off the Navionics website if anyone cares to read it:
http://www.navionics.com/sites/defau...ty_guide_0.pdf

Please stop trying to confuse the issue. You know very well that due to forum rules I am restricted with what I can include in my posts.

But in response to your direct question, I am an electronic engineering technician with over 30 years experience, an avid sailor for over 20 years, Commodore of a yacht club, technical advisor and contributor to GAM on Yachting magazine, a Raymarine Certified Installer, and own and operate a successful marine service business; hopefully this indicates that I know a thing or three about electronics and vessels.

Again, here is the direct excerpt of the technical paper sent to me, from Navionics tech support, last week...

Also, please keep in mind that the Navionics mobile app is for recreational and reference use only. The internal GPS receivers on mobile devices are not as reliable as what you would find on a GPS chart plotter. The Navionics mobile apps are a useful tool for reference, planning and can be an adequate backup GPS to a chart plotter. However, for serious navigational purposes, we recommend using our plotter cards for use with GPS chart plotters.


So again, I listed 11 reasons why an iPad is not a direct substitute for a chartplotter.

They are all 100% true.

I reported that Navionics have declared that a mobile device is not as reliable as a chartplotter.

Again 100% true.

Whether I am a marine service professional and expert in vessel electronics does not make these statements any less true, in fact, for some, it may add a little validity.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Please stop trying to confuse the issue. You know very well that due to forum rules I am restricted with what I can include in my posts.

But in response to your direct question, I am an electronic engineering technician with over 30 years experience, an avid sailor for over 20 years, Commodore of a yacht club, technical advisor and contributor to GAM on Yachting magazine, a Raymarine Certified Installer, and own and operate a successful marine service business; hopefully this indicates that I know a thing or three about electronics and vessels.

Again, here is the direct excerpt of the technical paper sent to me, from Navionics tech support, last week...

Also, please keep in mind that the Navionics mobile app is for recreational and reference use only. The internal GPS receivers on mobile devices are not as reliable as what you would find on a GPS chart plotter. The Navionics mobile apps are a useful tool for reference, planning and can be an adequate backup GPS to a chart plotter. However, for serious navigational purposes, we recommend using our plotter cards for use with GPS chart plotters.


So again, I listed 11 reasons why an iPad is not a direct substitute for a chartplotter.

They are all 100% true.

I reported that Navionics have declared that a mobile device is not as reliable as a chartplotter.

Again 100% true.

Whether I am a marine service professional and expert in vessel electronics does not make these statements any less true, in fact, for some, it may add a little validity.

I forwarded your post to the Navionics company and now await their respose. We don't use Navionics, and their website makes no mention of what you've posted, nor do you reference where it came from or who in the company made the claim.

I will agree that it would be foolish for anyone to totally depend on a single navigational device, whether it be one marine grade chartplotter or a single smartphone. We have many mobile devices onboard along with our crappy, broken professional Furuno marine chartplotter. Either type can break... The kind you install and any single mobile device.

But presently the score onboard our boat is two marine chartplotters broken and obsolete (one on the Hunter and now one on the Oyster) and four mobile devices working flawlessly over a six year period.

The score.

Chartplotters -2
Mobile devices +4

[ramblinrod]

I did state exactly where the Navionics information came from; directly from Navionics tech support. It was an attachment to their e-mail
in response to my query about using an iPad with Navionics charts.

Stop trying to confuse the issue.

[ramblinrod]

Actually, I referenced exactly where that Navionics information came from. I declared it came from Navionics tech support. It was in response to my e-mail query about using their electronic charts on an iPad. The document they sent attached, and referred to in their e-mail was titled "Navionics Mobile Apps - GPS Trchnology. It states very clearly that a proper chartplotter with their chart chip is more reliable than an iPad using there chart app, which should not be used for serious navigation. How much more clear can it be?