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Old 22-02-2014, 16:02   #31
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Dockhead, the keypad is called the pilot controller from what I've seen.

I assume the Airmar will just replace the B&G compass and work with the rest of the system?

Or, instead of having the B&G ZG100 mounted on the arch, and the B&G Rate compass, could I rather just install the Airmar GH2183 and knock both out with one unit?
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Old 22-02-2014, 16:18   #32
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Dockhead, the keypad is called the pilot controller from what I've seen.

I assume the Airmar will just replace the B&G compass and work with the rest of the system?

Or, instead of having the B&G ZG100 mounted on the arch, and the B&G Rate compass, could I rather just install the Airmar GH2183 and knock both out with one unit?
Yes, you don't need to go with a B&G or Simrad compass -- any N2K compass will work as the sentences are standardized.

You could use the GH2183 -- and people have reported good success with it -- but the compass will perform better if it is mounted as close to the boat's center of gravity as possible. So that argues for keeping the compass separate and mounting it below.
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Old 22-02-2014, 16:46   #33
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Well now you've got me obsessing over Airmar's stuff. Seems really well built. Another few questions: if I use the WX150 or WX200, will that bypass the need for the B&G wind masthead unit? Also the G2183 compared to the ZG100 from B&G?

I know I'm asking alot of repetitive questions, just trying to make sure I buy the right things the first time around. Thanks so much for your patience.

David
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Old 22-02-2014, 17:17   #34
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, certainly, you can switch to another screen after you've set your pilot, but it means juggling essential data. I don't think anyone would ever want to be without speed, depth, wind even momentarily, so I think that 3 Tritons are just about rock bottom minimum if you are using the keypad.
For 99.5% of our passagemaking, the depth sounder simply flashes ----, while the speed stays relatively constant, and we are not at all that concerned about anything after the decimal point. Somehow we manage to not look at the wind display for many moments at a time.

I can page through 9 pages of exquisitely presented graphical, numerical and historical data using a single finger in less than 15 seconds. How much trouble can one really get into not seeing the speed, depth or wind for those 15 seconds?

A single Triton display presents more data in more usable ways than an entire consumer electronics suite did just 10yrs ago. Maybe even 5 years ago. Having a minimum of 3 of these things is piggish luxury that presents the recreational sailor with more data in more ways than the entire US Navy had in 1998.

We have 3 of them (actually we had 7 of them, but that was a different threadů).

Don't tell anyone, but we often go many, many, many, many moments without even attempting to look at those data.

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Old 22-02-2014, 18:24   #35
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

You are getting advice from folks more knowledgeable than I but I will add one thing. These systems go out of date very quickly, almost like cell phones. I have a system that is only 5 years old and am already having volume of memory issues. I talked to a guy last summer that had a full, fancy system on his GH37 and was complaining about having to replace computers because the old one was not being supported anymore. I don't know how old his gear was but the boat couldn't have been very old. So my thought is that I would be reluctant to buy a system that was even one generation old. YMMV
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Old 22-02-2014, 19:49   #36
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
Well now you've got me obsessing over Airmar's stuff. Seems really well built. Another few questions: if I use the WX150 or WX200, will that bypass the need for the B&G wind masthead unit? Also the G2183 compared to the ZG100 from B&G?

I know I'm asking alot of repetitive questions, just trying to make sure I buy the right things the first time around. Thanks so much for your patience.

David
There is a lot of information on all of these devices in the archives if you will trawl around in there.

Most people prefer the Maretron WSO100 to the Airmar ultrasonic wind sensors. You do NOT want to try to use the compass built into a masthead wind sensor -- it's the wrong place for it, swinging wildly up there. But yes -- if you can figure out how to mount it, you will be very happy to have an ultrasonic, solid-state wind instrument instead of a whirlygig mechanical one like the B&G, which is obsolete technology in my opinion.

The Airmar compasses are the best -- the H2183 which has something like 1 degree dynamic accuracy (if I remember correctly). They outclass the Maretron and Simrad/B&G compasses.

ZG100 is a tremendous GPS receiver (I'm trying to buy one myself), but don't use the compass as your primary heading data source. You really want, on a sailboat, your compass below and your GPS receiver above somewhere -- separately. Combining them might be ok for a powerboat.
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Old 22-02-2014, 20:01   #37
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

You will need a rudder sensor for the pilot. The Simrad/B&G RF25 is the NMEA 2000 version. I have been very happy with my Simrad Kit. I have a

NSS7 (helm)
GS25
GoFree Wireless
3G Radar
AC12 AP Computer
AP24 AP Head
RC42 Compass
RF25 Sensor

My Ray ST60 instruments and AIS receiver are integrated through a NMEA0183 multiplexer to the NSS7.

Best of luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
Here is a revised setup that I have put together. I cannot figure out the proper B&G autopilot pieces to fill the puzzle. Is there any reason whatsoever to choose a B&G pilot over Simrad?

-B&G Zeus 12 Touch (mounted at helm)
-2 Triton T41 displays (mounted at helm)
-B&G 4G Radar
-B&G ZG100
-B&G WM-3
-B&G Triton Pilot Controller
-Navico NAIS-400
-Navico GoFree Wifi-1

Is all I'm missing here the autopilot computer, compass and drive unit? Or is there more to this system that I'm missing?
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Old 22-02-2014, 22:28   #38
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

pbfein, thanks. I thought I might have missed something.

I have updated my list a little bit, here is what I have now:

-B&G Zeus 12 (helm)
-B&G Triton Display (3 at helm)
-B&G 4G radar
-Airmar 100WX WeatherStation
-Airmar DST800 Depth/Speed/Temp Bronze
-B&G ZG100 GPS antenna

Decided to drop the B&G WM-3 weather module for now. I don't think it's necessary, especially if I can get weather reports via SSB.

Also adding:

140AH AGM batteries (4)
140W Kyocera Solar panels (3)
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:05   #39
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

What would be very useful with all these Tritons , would be a remote button panel to cycle pages and or even better a series of programmable buttons to select particular pages fast.

I wonder can the Triton be controlled by private PGNs , I wouldn't mind having one on my labs NMEA 2k test rig. Be interesting to sniff the network

Dave
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:36   #40
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post

Helm/Deck:
-Simrad NSS12
-Simrad IS20 depth/wind package

...

The main thing for me is having a good detailed chart system at the helm with radar.


David

Not familiar with Simrad stuff; is the NSS12 an MFD? Chartplotter/radar/etc. display?

FWIW, I'd separate refrigeration from all this... I'd install some, but I wouldn't consider it "electronics."

Our system is almost all Furuno (and MaxSea as backup on a laptop), and I'm surprised at some of the comments about TZ. I've installed NN3D software updates, updated charts, etc... no big deal. I don't have the Touch version, though. In any case, I'm pleased with it...

-Chris
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:43   #41
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Not familiar with Simrad stuff; is the NSS12 an MFD? Chartplotter/radar/etc. display?

FWIW, I'd separate refrigeration from all this... I'd install some, but I wouldn't consider it "electronics."

Our system is almost all Furuno (and MaxSea as backup on a laptop), and I'm surprised at some of the comments about TZ. I've installed NN3D software updates, updated charts, etc... no big deal. I don't have the Touch version, though. In any case, I'm pleased with it...

-Chris

I mention furuno Tz as being a bit dated. By that I mean furuno have done little ( desire the TZtouch) to update the whole system. Simrad and Raymarine have updated the whole line and Garmin is running a close third.

Dave
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:52   #42
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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I mention furuno Tz as being a bit dated. By that I mean furuno have done little ( desire the TZtouch) to update the whole system. Simrad and Raymarine have updated the whole line and Garmin is running a close third.

Dave

Fair enough, I guess... although FWIW, aside from touch screens, I haven't noticed anything a new Ray or Garmin will do that I couldn't already do with NN3D...

-Chris
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:55   #43
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

I will second the comment about the 2183. It controlled the pilot on our Wauquiez in surfing, conditions in the gulf stream so well we never felt unease. The compass is the biggest influence on how an autopilot performs.

If you are installing a Navico chartplotter, then the integrated autopilot control is very, very good. I think you will find that the plotter, and perhaps the OP10 controller as a backup, will comprise a very workable solution.

Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
What's the "Pilot Controller"? There's no control head in this system. Do you mean the keypad:

Attachment 76595

You do need that.

In my opinion, you can do much better than the B&G compass for similar money. The best in class is the Airmar H2183, which is three-axis stabilized with much better dynamic accuracy. This makes a significant difference in pilot performance.
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Old 23-02-2014, 07:18   #44
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Fair enough, I guess... although FWIW, aside from touch screens, I haven't noticed anything a new Ray or Garmin will do that I couldn't already do with NN3D...

-Chris

If you look at furuno as a system, not just the mfd. They have been very slow to update parts , I mean the RD3x is a poor virtual instrument by today's standards, the instrument set is looking very dated, then look at things like ipad integration, Simrad go-free, CWFM radars, heading sensors. The dowager is looking a little long in the tooth.

Dave
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Old 23-02-2014, 13:50   #45
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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I will second the comment about the 2183. It controlled the pilot on our Wauquiez in surfing, conditions in the gulf stream so well we never felt unease. The compass is the biggest influence on how an autopilot performs.

If you are installing a Navico chartplotter, then the integrated autopilot control is very, very good. I think you will find that the plotter, and perhaps the OP10 controller as a backup, will comprise a very workable solution.

Chris
Thanks witzgall, I think that I'll most likely be running a B&G chartplotter, but from everything I've read and the videos I've watched, I'm definitely going to go the H2183 route.
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