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Old 27-03-2014, 05:57   #166
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
John,

No, there is nothing that can calculate that other than a speed transducer. I know it would be good to have.. I just thought maybe it wouldn't be worth it, having SOG from all sorts of other devices, but as others have said, since the triducer can get that data, why not just have it. My theory was to just forget it since it's just going to become fouled anyway after a while, but I suppose that's boat ownership.

I can pull and clean both of my triducers while in water. A temporary blanking plug keeps the seas at bay. A little Keystone Komedy at first...



-Chris
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Old 27-03-2014, 07:15   #167
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Furuno stubbornly refuses to support AIS over N2K and publicly states it has no plans to ever do so. However, it supports AIS over NMEA0183 just fine.
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Personally wild dogs wouldn't convince me to have Furuno gear on board. but thats just me, way too quirky. ( I just can't bring myself to trust a Windows XP MFD with a spinning disk!), charts outside US are a mess and expensive , Radar advantages long since gone, ( 3rd party factory makes several brands of radar). High end Commercial is good, but then just buy Koden.

Their AiS policy was major nonsense. ( merely because they had a ethernet AIS before N2K)

Dave
1) Furuno supports 3rd party AIS over N2K in the TZTouch, their latest product line. Furuno does not support 3rd party AIS over N2K in their older NavNet3D gear, but supports 3rd party AIS over NMEA0183 @ 38400. Furuno AIS connects via Furuno Ethernet to both NN3D and TZTouch.

2) Furuno is still selling and supporting NN3D more than 6 years after it's initial release. None of the other big 4 would even think about carrying a product line that long. (one can argue the reasons or if that's good/bad)

3) Furuno support is second to no one! Best in class!

3) NN3D MFDs run on Windows CE, NN3D BB runs on Windows XP. Regardless of what Dave states, Windows CE/XP as an embedded OS has proven to be very stable and garnered a significant market share in it's day. Now dated? Absolutely! But stating it's not trustworthy is like saying blue shoes are better than green ones. It's a personal choice. It would not be my first choice given all criteria was equal, but it does work as advertised.
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Old 27-03-2014, 07:54   #168
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
John,

No, there is nothing that can calculate that other than a speed transducer. I know it would be good to have.. I just thought maybe it wouldn't be worth it, having SOG from all sorts of other devices, but as others have said, since the triducer can get that data, why not just have it. My theory was to just forget it since it's just going to become fouled anyway after a while, but I suppose that's boat ownership.
Our Airmar depth and speed transducers both came with thruhulls that have a trap door in them. When you pull the transducers out, the trap door shuts and only a small dribble of water comes in while they are out. The blanking plug can be put in if you need to have the transducer out for any length of time. All-in-all, maybe a few ounces of water get in the boat removing/replacing a transducer.

We must be lucky, but our speed transducer rarely gets fouled, and mostly when we are at anchor for a long time. I just pull it and put in the plug for that.

Mark
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Old 27-03-2014, 07:57   #169
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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1) Furuno supports 3rd party AIS over N2K in the TZTouch, their latest product line. Furuno does not support 3rd party AIS over N2K in their older NavNet3D gear, but supports 3rd party AIS over NMEA0183 @ 38400. Furuno AIS connects via Furuno Ethernet to both NN3D and TZTouch.

2) Furuno is still selling and supporting NN3D more than 6 years after it's initial release. None of the other big 4 would even think about carrying a product line that long. (one can argue the reasons or if that's good/bad)

3) Furuno support is second to no one! Best in class!

FWIW, if I were Furuno, I probably wouldn't have added N2K support to NN3D either. I don't see a good business case for doing that, given NN3D would have been slated for replacement as all electronics are. Makes $$ sense to add N2K support to future products, instead.

I've had really good support from Furuno, the couple times I needed it. (MaxSea/France for the PC version, too, for that matter).

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Old 27-03-2014, 08:10   #170
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
1) Furuno supports 3rd party AIS over N2K in the TZTouch, their latest product line. Furuno does not support 3rd party AIS over N2K in their older NavNet3D gear, but supports 3rd party AIS over NMEA0183 @ 38400. Furuno AIS connects via Furuno Ethernet to both NN3D and TZTouch.

2) Furuno is still selling and supporting NN3D more than 6 years after it's initial release. None of the other big 4 would even think about carrying a product line that long. (one can argue the reasons or if that's good/bad)

3) Furuno support is second to no one! Best in class!

3) NN3D MFDs run on Windows CE, NN3D BB runs on Windows XP. Regardless of what Dave states, Windows CE/XP as an embedded OS has proven to be very stable and garnered a significant market share in it's day. Now dated? Absolutely! But stating it's not trustworthy is like saying blue shoes are better than green ones. It's a personal choice. It would not be my first choice given all criteria was equal, but it does work as advertised.
Is there a reason they will not support AIS on N2K on the NN3D? I did not know about the Touch supporting it - on their technical forum, they have been very vocal about Furuno never putting AIS on N2K. But that was also in the NN3D section.

Companies with better support than Furuno: Maretron, Actisense, Standard Horizon - these guys absolutely set the standard for customer support. I have used all four.

Based on the fact that B&G sent me 4 free Tritons to replace the one I returned because it had a smudge on a rubber button, I should include them. But I don't think that was typical customer support for themů

I must say that I am uncomfortable hearing that hard drive spinning inside the MFD, and the boot up times are excruciatingly slow. They must be triple or more than that of others.

Personally, I have found Furuno's radar performance on our boat to be superior to other current generation brands on other boats. This is meaningless, of course, because of the wide variables involved, but ours is mounted low to the water and set only to "auto" tuning functions, so it is not due to mounting height or user knowledge/experience. We regularly see targets others do not, we regularly see rain others do not and we can see through that rain when others cannot.

But if I was choosing a chartplotter only, I would not get the Furuno - either the NN3D or the TZTouch - I find them clumsy, feature-poor and antiquated (although I find ALL CP's antiquated since we have been using PC-based charting for so long before getting a CP).

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Old 27-03-2014, 10:00   #171
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Is there a reason they will not support AIS on N2K on the NN3D? I did not know about the Touch supporting it - on their technical forum, they have been very vocal about Furuno never putting AIS on N2K. But that was also in the NN3D section.
I don't know the reason, but would guess, as others have, it's a marketing decision. Why put it on an old product when they're trying to get you to buy the newer line?

I stated it's supported on the TZTouch, not from experience, but reading the manual section that states supported N2K pgns, and all the AIS pgns are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Companies with better support than Furuno: Maretron, Actisense, Standard Horizon - these guys absolutely set the standard for customer support. I have used all four.

Based on the fact that B&G sent me 4 free Tritons to replace the one I returned because it had a smudge on a rubber button, I should include them. But I don't think that was typical customer support for themů
Furuno's live tech support is what I was referring to. You can talk to a tech in fairly short order and they are very intelligent. Their hardware repair has gone above and beyond, replacing faded bezels free of charge, even screens where the glare coating was ruined by end user carelessness, etc. Furuno's tech support forum is average at best, they seem to not accept criticism very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I must say that I am uncomfortable hearing that hard drive spinning inside the MFD, and the boot up times are excruciatingly slow. They must be triple or more than that of others.
I haven't had a hard drive failure in (3) NN3Ds. As far as performance, a sign of the times.....a product development cycle that took too long, hence the hardware was 'dated' at release. Now 6 years later, it's even more apparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Personally, I have found Furuno's radar performance on our boat to be superior to other current generation brands on other boats. This is meaningless, of course, because of the wide variables involved, but ours is mounted low to the water and set only to "auto" tuning functions, so it is not due to mounting height or user knowledge/experience. We regularly see targets others do not, we regularly see rain others do not and we can see through that rain when others cannot.

But if I was choosing a chartplotter only, I would not get the Furuno - either the NN3D or the TZTouch - I find them clumsy, feature-poor and antiquated (although I find ALL CP's antiquated since we have been using PC-based charting for so long before getting a CP).
I agree, I wouldn't buy a Furuno chart plotter today with all the other choices, I don't find the value for the up-charge. Maybe we're not the only ones that feel that way and why they're currently offering massive rebates.
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Old 27-03-2014, 10:26   #172
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

I was also referring to live tech support and other direct personal communications when I mentioned Maretron, Actisense and Standard Horizon.

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Old 27-03-2014, 14:10   #173
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Is it possible to use Furuno radar with a B&G Zeus2 chartplotter?
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Old 27-03-2014, 14:25   #174
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

No. All radars must be used with their corresponding MFD's.

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Old 27-03-2014, 16:46   #175
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

don't forget to compare the power usage of both companies chartplotters.

Chris
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Old 27-03-2014, 19:23   #176
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40



Started the ICW today. Staying at Atlantic Yacht Basin for the night. Hopefully making it to Coinjock tmw.
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Old 28-03-2014, 07:31   #177
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

As far as support goes, for example I ring Raymarine in the UK and have always got great support, talk to knowledge tech people etc. SIMRAD not so much in comparison. Furuno Ive talked to in Scotland and they seem knowledgeable to, even if they couldn't help me.


My beef with Furuno is they take too long to refresh the product and you get stranded with dated ( and very expensive) gear. Its clear given their very small market % , they probably have a very long time to recoup the development costs.

Equally one only has to read the UK and other forums a few years ago to see how they made a mess of the non US charts. All these charts of course must be in Furuno TZ format, even if underlying they are Navionics or C-Map.

The rest of the line is very very dated FI-50 are old, RD30-33 is now very dated, APs haven't changed in years. etc etc

They are a small player in a market dominated by Raymarine, Navico, Garmin.

If you compare their Super HD, i.e. digital processed radar with SImrad, Ray, gamin equivalents the difference are impossible to measure IMHO.

If one looks at how dated Navnet 2D had become and now look at Navnet 3D, its clear they can't really afford to keep up with the market leaders

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Old 28-03-2014, 07:48   #178
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

The TZTouch series doesn't seem outdated? Didn't they just release this a year or so ago?

I will admit their gauges and other things may be a bit dated, but the TZtouch looks right on par with the Zeus touch, give and take a few features
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Old 31-03-2014, 13:43   #179
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Made it to Oriental!
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Old 04-04-2014, 21:28   #180
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Well, the custom arch is designed and the welding is about to begin. Full electronics system is on order...(went with entirely B&G, yes I know I have been flip flopping like a crazy ass)

Currently hanging out in Oriental waiting on stuff to come in!

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