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Old 26-03-2014, 13:58   #151
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

What is STW? I just didn't want to have to deal with a speed transducer. Am I better off having one?
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:04   #152
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Also, I have read that Furuno MFD's don't support AIS over NMEA2000? How do I integrate this to the system?
Furuno can likely answer the question: Furuno USA Forum

Our AIS does indeed integrate with our NN3D MFD-12. Diagrams say our particular AIS (Furuno FA-50) communicates via Ethernet or RS-422... but I forget how (if) one of those translates to the physical pathway for NMEA 0183 or NMEA 2000 sentences. And I don't remember whether any brand AIS will integrate (but I think our original tech advisor said others could).

See
CLASS B AIS TRANSPONDER FA-50 | Products:AIS | Marine Equipment For Fishing Vessels | Business Fields & Product List | FURUNO's Product Site
and
http://www.furuno.com/en/business_pr...arine/fa50.pdf
if it helps.

Looks like they have a couple other AIS products...

-Chris
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:10   #153
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

I was hoping to use the Vesper XB-8000 transponder for the AIS and not the Furuno unit, as it is nearly twice the price.
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:15   #154
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Fair enough. Furuno should still be able to answer the question.

-Chris
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:16   #155
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Raymarine makes a big deal about all of their current MFD's being fully N2K compliant. There is nothing I can find on their AP's regarding this. Do you know if their AP's are also N2K compliant?

Mark
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:18   #156
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Raymarine makes a big deal about all of their current MFD's being fully N2K compliant. There is nothing I can find on their AP's regarding this. Do you know if their AP's are also N2K compliant?

Mark

yes any Raymarine with seaTalkNG is in effect a NMEA2K device. all there latest APs are compliant
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:29   #157
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Furuno stubbornly refuses to support AIS over N2K and publicly states it has no plans to ever do so. However, it supports AIS over NMEA0183 just fine.

Your Vespar has 0183 output, so you would use that to connect to the Furuno. It will require a second cable though.

If it was me, I would get a speed transducer. STW and SOG can be used together to show current and display that data on the Tritons. And as Dave mentions, you could also find data gaps or incorrect calculated data. Airmar makes a combined depth/speed/temp triducer, if you are concerned about another thruhull.

We also have the Triton pilot controller pad - works just fine, although you give up the "WindNav" and "NoDrift" AP options with it (along with all of the fishing an powerboat patterns). I am hoping that they add these into it in future software updates.

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Old 26-03-2014, 14:33   #158
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

Quote:
Furuno stubbornly refuses to support AIS over N2K and publicly states it has no plans to ever do so. However, it supports AIS over NMEA0183 just fine.

Personally wild dogs wouldn't convince me to have Furuno gear on board. but thats just me, way too quirky. ( I just can't bring myself to trust a Windows XP MFD with a spinning disk!), charts outside US are a mess and expensive , Radar advantages long since gone, ( 3rd party factory makes several brands of radar). High end Commercial is good, but then just buy Koden.

Their AiS policy was major nonsense. ( merely because they had a ethernet AIS before N2K)

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Old 26-03-2014, 14:35   #159
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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Mark, thank you SO much!!! You have made me feel extremely comfortable in making my choice. I am going to go with the Furuno radar and TZTouch I think. For the autopilot, I plan on having the B&G Triton control pad next to one of my Triton displays, so that should be a good way to control the autopilot, correct?

Also, I have read that Furuno MFD's don't support AIS over NMEA2000? How do I integrate this to the system?

Also, I do not want to even bother with a speed transducer, so I'm just getting the Airmar Depth/Temp transducer. SOG on the GPS is good enough for me, plus I will have an iPhone, iPad to use as well.

I'm so excited now!!!
It will work fine. You only lose control of the Simrad autopilot via MFD.

I much prefer the Zeus, myself, but you should choose the MFD which works the best for you according to your way of working with it. If you prefer the Furuno, go for it. The Furuno radar is legendary and is at least a match for the Simrad 4G, I think.

AIS data you can get into the Furuno (or any MFD) via NMEA 0183. It's not a problem.

I would reconsider about the speed transducer, however. Speed through the water is fundamental data, without which you can't calculate true wind, for example. You can buy a single transducer which does speed, depth, and water temp -- it's no hassle to have this data, so why would you give it up?
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:43   #160
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

For charts, the Furuno uses both CMAP and Navionics - just like other manufacturers. Some others only support one or the other.

We currently have CMAP and it cost $300 to get charts that cover from San Diego down to Colombia on the Pacific side, across to Guayana on the Atlantic side, up through the entire Eastern Caribe and Bahamas and across the entire US Southern coast back to San Diego.

So we have the entire Bahamas and Caribbean with Pacific coasts of Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Mexico and Baja thrown in. Do charts for other manufacturers cost less than this?

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Old 26-03-2014, 14:44   #161
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

I suppose you're all right, I might as well go with the triducer from Airmar.

AIS through NMEA0183, check. That's good.

I have played with B&G Zeus and the TZTouch. I like them both. I like certain things about each. Furuno seems to be the rugged, military grade radar that has been around since the beginning. Legendary. The B&G Zeus 2 would be brand new hardware and that would be nice. The 4G radar seems like something that is just going to be 5G next year, and seems like new technology that is constantly being changed. I realize that this will be the case with anything, but the broadband radar in particular seems very new and changing constantly. I'm sure for my needs, which are chartplotting with radar and AIS overlay, either one of these systems is going to be completely more than adequate. I just have a hard time choosing, as does everyone.
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Old 26-03-2014, 19:19   #162
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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I suppose you're all right, I might as well go with the triducer from Airmar.

AIS through NMEA0183, check. That's good.

I have played with B&G Zeus and the TZTouch. I like them both. I like certain things about each. Furuno seems to be the rugged, military grade radar that has been around since the beginning. Legendary. The B&G Zeus 2 would be brand new hardware and that would be nice. The 4G radar seems like something that is just going to be 5G next year, and seems like new technology that is constantly being changed. I realize that this will be the case with anything, but the broadband radar in particular seems very new and changing constantly. I'm sure for my needs, which are chartplotting with radar and AIS overlay, either one of these systems is going to be completely more than adequate. I just have a hard time choosing, as does everyone.

In reality there's little to chose between them in radar. Both Simrad / B&G and furuno pulse radars both come with excellent heritage, IF that's actually means anything in today's mass market. Both have very similar characteristics. Simrad has of course an added advantage in you can also choose a FMCW type radar. ( ie the 4G). If you prefer to stay with conventional magnetron pulse , both have good radars.

Again, if you find it hard to choose, then the obvious is to stay with homogenous units. Only if you have compelling reason would I suggest choping and changing.

Dave


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Old 26-03-2014, 21:52   #163
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

David,
Okay now I've got a question for you....
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Also, I do not want to even bother with a speed transducer, so I'm just getting the Airmar Depth/Temp transducer. SOG on the GPS is good enough for me, plus I will have an iPhone, iPad to use as well.
How do you navigate without current info, or know what current you have, or calculate set-drift, etc. without knowing your vessel speed thru the water???

Is there some AP that allows a phone or tablet to use some sort of ultra-sonic sensing to calculate boat speed thru the water???
I know smartphones can do some cool things, but this just perplexes me....

I'm sure once you tell me what this AP is, or how it works, I'll feel like an idiot still thinking that you need a thru-hull transducer to measure boat Speed Thru Water (STW)...
(and, go easy on me....as I don't own a smartphone, nor tablet!!)



Thanks.

John
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Old 26-03-2014, 23:17   #164
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

John,

No, there is nothing that can calculate that other than a speed transducer. I know it would be good to have.. I just thought maybe it wouldn't be worth it, having SOG from all sorts of other devices, but as others have said, since the triducer can get that data, why not just have it. My theory was to just forget it since it's just going to become fouled anyway after a while, but I suppose that's boat ownership.
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Old 27-03-2014, 04:24   #165
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Re: Complete Electronics Outfit - Caliber 40

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John,

No, there is nothing that can calculate that other than a speed transducer. I know it would be good to have.. I just thought maybe it wouldn't be worth it, having SOG from all sorts of other devices, but as others have said, since the triducer can get that data, why not just have it. My theory was to just forget it since it's just going to become fouled anyway after a while, but I suppose that's boat ownership.
As others have told you, STW is fundamental data. If you didn't get it from your GPS, you could easily calculate SOG and it would be no big deal sailing without it, but in a strong current without STW you are screwed.

If you get tired of fouled transducers (which I understand very well), then consider an ultrasonic speed transducer. They have a lot of advantages including much better accuracy, especially at low speeds. I have one of these -- the expensive Airmar CS4500, but there are drawbacks -- it is a pulse unit designed for the ancient freestanding speed display, so you need to convert the data TWICE -- from pulse to NMEA0183, then from NMEA0183 to N2K. Bleh.

Airmar is supposed to be releasing an N2K DST transducer with ultrasonic STW, but it has been vaporware for years. I think it's called the DST-900. Might be worth checking to see whether it will be released in our lifetimes.
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