Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-06-2019, 22:39   #1
Registered User
 
wedivebc's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vancouver Island
Boat: Hallberg Rassy Rasmus 35
Posts: 87
Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Forgive me if this has been discussed before but...
Why does both US and Candian Coast Guard insist on using US mode working channels on VHF? My radio can switch channels from the mike button but if I have to switch to US mode (which CG seems to insist on) I have to go below and change a setting on my radio. Does US mode have greater range or is there something else I'm missing?
__________________

wedivebc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2019, 22:53   #2
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 7,674
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

For those channels of concern to you, have you checked the actual frequencies being used?
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2019, 23:10   #3
Registered User
 
wedivebc's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vancouver Island
Boat: Hallberg Rassy Rasmus 35
Posts: 87
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
For those channels of concern to you, have you checked the actual frequencies being used?
Not sure what you're getting at. USCG uses 22a and CCG uses 83a as working channels.
wedivebc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2019, 23:34   #4
Registered User
 
Alan Mighty's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Scarborough Boat Harbour, Moreton Bay
Boat: US$4,550 of lead under a GRP hull with cutter rig
Posts: 1,370
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
My radio can switch channels from the mike button but if I have to switch to US mode (which CG seems to insist on) I have to go below and change a setting on my radio. Does US mode have greater range or is there something else I'm missing?
You raise a messy topic, wedivebc. Messy, because the history has not been well documented and so it's very hard to discuss accurately.

One way (not the only way and not guaranteed to 100% accurate) of looking at the situation is:

* in around 1947, by agreement at an international conference held in New Jersey, three chunks of the VHF spectrum were allocated to maritime mobile use for safety. But the bottom line always was that individual jurisdictions (i.e. nation states) had to exert their political will to safeguard the spectrum allocation for maritime mobile.

* in the US, in 1948 the USCG did deals with the US FCC, surrendering some spectrum and getting the 21A thru 24A channels in return.

* in other jurisdictions (i.e. outside the US), different nation-states did slightly different things, but generally three chunks of VHF spectrum were allocated to maritime mobile. In truth, VHF 16 is the minimum that is protected around the world. Some jurisdictions don't like their citizens having access to VHF transceivers at all. Not mentioning any names now.

* in the US, the several railway companies were politically much more powerful than the unorganised users of maritime mobile. So the US ended up with only two of those three chunks of VHF spectrum allocated to maritime mobile. And one of the two chunks was made thinner than elsewhere. Railways and other commercial uses took what in non-US jurisdictions is maritime mobile spectrum.

* back in the 1980s, there was a marine incident. A foreign flagged ship was navigating in US waters. The USCG had broadcast a warning (on 21A or one of those other USA-only channels) that a barge carrying flammable petrochemicals (petrol or gasoline, depending what side of the creek you went to school) was adrift. The foreign flagged ship was, not surprisingly, not monitoring the US channels and so received not that warning broadcast. The captain of the foreign flagged ship was not happy. The eventual result was that the US Houses of Congress legislated that all foreign-flagged ships in US waters must carry a VHF transceiver with a switch that changed from "international mode" to the more restricted (but with the 21A - 24A channels that the USCG had bartered from the US FCC) "US mode". Although not governed by US law, most all of this planet's manufacturers of VHF sets have installed that switch. No one specified that that switch should be easy to use - quite the contrary.

* as I understand it, you're in a jurisdiction that neighbours the US. So you're what everyone calls 'SOL'. You ain't got much choice.

* a side benefit (which we're not allowed to talk about, so please close your eyes now) is that one or two of those channels that the USCG bartered from the US FCC, the 21A to 24A spread, is not much used outside the US. So if you want to have a conversation with another cruiser in, say, (insert the name of a non-N American or Central American country), you can look at the frequency list, identify which of those -A channels is not used "iinternationally" and agree to use it. You can open your eyes now. (of course, in at least one "international" jurisdiction, if that -A channel is overused, the local radio police do their best to track down the mis-users of it. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. 'Nuff said.)
__________________
“Fools say that you can only gain experience at your own expense, but I have always contrived to gain my experience at the expense of others.” - Otto von Bismarck
Alan Mighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 00:09   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 7,243
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

If you are in Canada or the US why would not just leave your VHF in US Mode?
__________________
Paul
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 00:41   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Victoria BC
Boat: 1980 Hunter 36
Posts: 906
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Doesn't the CCG use Canada mode? That's what I left mine in while in Canada. I switched it to US mode once in Mexico, as people were using US mode and a channel that I had no access to in Canada mode (63 I think)
__________________
S/V Gudgeon
www.gudgeonblog.ca
alctel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 06:03   #7
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 1,914
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Very interesting maritime history, Alan Mighty. I had never heard of this before.
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 07:39   #8
Registered User
 
Brian.D's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Oceanside Ca
Boat: Lancer 27PS
Posts: 111
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

It all boils down to this: each country/region is allocated frequencies to use according to the International Telecommunications Union (ITU). Since VHF is pretty much Line of Sight it has limited range and therefore frequencies can be reused. In the case of the US and Canada, certain frequencies are shared but their use might be different.

As an example, take channel 22 and 22A. Most of the channels assigned in VHF Maritime are duplex frequencies. This means (and I am not talking down to anyone) that the transmit and receive frequencies are different. In the US, the "A" designation, as in 22A, means the channel is a simplex channel where the transmit frequency and receive frequency are the same. Here, I believe the 161.7 MHz frequency (the other half of the channel 22 pair) is used somewhere else.

This holds true for geostationary satellites. There are three different sets of down link frequencies. This because some of the downlink frequencies are used by microwave system throughout the world. The satellite downlink could interfere with the microwave links.

As for the dissertation above, I too have never hear that story. It sounds plausible.
__________________
Brian D
KF6BL
S/V Takara
Brian.D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 08:07   #9
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 7,674
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
Not sure what you're getting at. USCG uses 22a and CCG uses 83a as working channels.

You originally asked about MODE, now you're noting the channels are different. Mode and channel are different.


Leave it on one or the other mode, it will read both channels.


If you check the frequencies of each, you may find they are identical in each mode for each channel.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 08:23   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 106
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

All maritime VHF channels have the same range.
stewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 08:34   #11
Registered User
 
wedivebc's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vancouver Island
Boat: Hallberg Rassy Rasmus 35
Posts: 87
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by alctel View Post
Doesn't the CCG use Canada mode? That's what I left mine in while in Canada. I switched it to US mode once in Mexico, as people were using US mode and a channel that I had no access to in Canada mode (63 I think)
CCG requires you to switch to 83a for working channel. If you are dealing with an emergency switching modes is an added task loading step that seems unnessasary
wedivebc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 08:42   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 730
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
You originally asked about MODE, now you're noting the channels are different. Mode and channel are different.


Leave it on one or the other mode, it will read both channels.


If you check the frequencies of each, you may find they are identical in each mode for each channel.
No, They are not the same frequencies or the same channels. That is the point of which mode you are in. You cannont talk on the USCG working channels in international mode and the channel designations are suffixed for that reason. Also some trivia - England has at least one channel that is different from both US and international. My British friends used their own private channel.
stormalong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 08:46   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 107
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
CCG requires you to switch to 83a for working channel. If you are dealing with an emergency switching modes is an added task loading step that seems unnessasary
If you are in the middle of an emergency where switching to 83a will increase you likelihood of death or injury the Coast Guard will keep you on 16. If they don't, you should call the command you were working with on the phone when everything is resolved and speak to a supervisor, as switching someone in the throes of a genuine emergency is not in keeping with standard operating proceedure.
redneckrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 08:51   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Other people's boats
Posts: 76
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

The temptation would be to leave the set in the US mode unless that locks out any Canadian frequencies that you actually make use of. The US frequencies seem easily searchable, and RBR-2 — Technical Requirements for the Operation of Mobile Stations in the Maritime Service - Spectrum management and telecommunications has a table of the Canadian ones partway down the page. Of course, if you also use channels 23B or 83B and don't have a Canada-specific mode you might be out of luck.
requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2019, 09:29   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 730
Re: Coast Guard using US mode on radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by requiem View Post
The temptation would be to leave the set in the US mode unless that locks out any Canadian frequencies that you actually make use of. The US frequencies seem easily searchable, and RBR-2 — Technical Requirements for the Operation of Mobile Stations in the Maritime Service - Spectrum management and telecommunications has a table of the Canadian ones partway down the page. Of course, if you also use channels 23B or 83B and don't have a Canada-specific mode you might be out of luck.
Huh??? Just leave it in U.S. mode. Canada uses U.S. mode for it's comms. No need to keep the radio in international mode for Canada.
__________________

stormalong is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
radio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Red Mode / Night Mode on iPad DaveWaltersAus Navigation 35 25-07-2017 17:12
VHF Radio shows the wrong received channel in Scan Mode SVToybox Marine Electronics 13 08-09-2016 06:57
Icom M-802 "Open Mode" (Open/Ham/Dial vs. Standard "marine mode") ka4wja Marine Electronics 0 03-11-2014 06:25
Switching from Liveaboard Mode to Sailing Mode Justin R. Liveaboard's Forum 8 07-02-2012 17:31
Coast Guard Radio Conversation LMAO JusDreaming Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 0 19-12-2007 18:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.