Class B AIS waste of money

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Perhaps he was referring to an ECDIS combined chartplotter / radar display?

But yes, mentioning the Class-A receiver does raise some questions.

And commenting on another issue that has been raised here: being lectured to turn off our Class-B transmissions when in a busy harbor or in the slip.

I believe that this is a completely wrong-headed way to solve the problem. If I am in a slip then I am not in the way of a passing ship. They should adjust their display and alarms appropriately. If I am on the water and in the way, the ship should want to know about my being there. Or, should I haul down my radar reflector, and cover my boat in radar-stealth screening? How about my running lights? Should I turn those off so as not to distract the ship's watch?

The solution to AIS target-overload is proper AIS alarm processing and target filtering, and proper training of the bridge crew. If the display systems aren't adequately designed then they need to be improved. But I'm not going to turn off my AIS while we wait for this to happen.

Agreed, but curious why it might be desirable to keep AIS on while in a slip? Maybe if at an exposed T-head?

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Perhaps he was referring to an ECDIS combined chartplotter / radar display?

But yes, mentioning the Class-A receiver does raise some questions.

And commenting on another issue that has been raised here: being lectured to turn off our Class-B transmissions when in a busy harbor or in the slip.

I believe that this is a completely wrong-headed way to solve the problem. If I am in a slip then I am not in the way of a passing ship. They should adjust their display and alarms appropriately. If I am on the water and in the way, the ship should want to know about my being there. Or, should I haul down my radar reflector, and cover my boat in radar-stealth screening? How about my running lights? Should I turn those off so as not to distract the ship's watch?

The solution to AIS target-overload is proper AIS alarm processing and target filtering, and proper training of the bridge crew. If the display systems aren't adequately designed then they need to be improved. But I'm not going to turn off my AIS while we wait for this to happen.

Totally agree. This whole line of argument about "too much clutter", and "too confusing" is totally foolish. If I'm confused by what I see on a chart, I don't turn off my chart plotter to solve the problem. If I see a lot of radar targets and I'm not sure which ones to pay attention to, I don't turn off the radar to solve the problem. And what captain would turn off or ignore potentially important information when navigating? Talk about a good way to ruin your career?

[donradcliffe]

Class B AIS waste of money--from a Jr Engineer with attitude who will thankfully never be a deck officer.

This thread--waste of bandwidth

[TomLewis]

I don't see an issue with B, I do like AIS. Coming up the east coast from the BVI it is nice on late night watches when you are only 'half there'. It was especially helpful for the crew with less than good eye sight. The warnings are great. As far as B, I don't see how it is a total waste, just added safety.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Exile

Agreed, but curious why it might be desirable to keep AIS on while in a slip? Maybe if at an exposed T-head?

I don't personally leave my AIS on when in the slip, but I suppose some may want to do so for security reasons, and I don't think this should cause a problem for anybody. Some also argue against this on the grounds of AIS system timeslot congestion, but the transmit rate for not-moving Class-B transponders is so slow that it's not going to clog the AIS timeslots, and the Class-B protocol further backs off on the transmit rate in crowded conditions.

I don't think that AIS helps much if you are tied up on a T-head dock. Most similarly-parked boats won't be transmitting AIS, so if a vessel is relying on AIS to not hit a parked boat they are doing something *really* wrong. When I'm moving in a marina or small harbor I generally ignore my AIS display, other than to see if a ferryboat is arriving around the point. I definitely don't have my AIS long-range collision alarms turned on!

[leftbrainstuff]

Situational awareness is the goal.

AIS is just one tool in the tool box. Like all aids to navigation there are no guarantees.

Situational awareness is an emergent property. The mark one eyeball, along with ears and that intuition which comes from experience also contribute to our situational awareness.

Personal experience is that the road and the oceans are full of idiots. Roads have lines which makes it simpler for the idiots to color in between the lines.

I like to fall back on the ultimate objective of the colregs. Avoid collisions. It works well with other vessels, the bottom and the hard bits around the edge.

We too are new to using AIS. I find it a good companion to radar and its handy to identify a vessel we may wish to talk to.

[SV Enough]

Because they are a useless pain in the ass.

[SailRedemption]

A Unlimited oceans 2nd Mate with 1600tn Masters (6000itc endorsement added) here. Just want to say I (and I think I speak for most of the competent officers in the fleet) don't agree with this. Also, if I don't know how to "tune" the radar I look in the manual on the bridge, or call Furuno. If I needed an extra lookout, I'd call a QMED.

[Sandibar]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

Because they are a useless pain in the ass.

Was this a reply to some earlier post - what is a useless pain in the ass? I'm interested in this thread, because an AIS transmitter is pretty high on my list of upgrades (have reception through our VHF and plotter display - and love it). We have quite a lot of traffic in the Baltic and having to cross a shipping lane in fog is one of the big worries I have. I would assume that the big boys are able to see us on radar and I can certainly see them on AIS - can I count on other's radar 35ft plastic boat with reflector?
Having been hailed in less than optimal conditions by larger ships with reduced manouverability requesting we move away from their course and not immediately realizing we were being hailed (identified just by position), for me one of the bigger advantages of AIS is direct incoming DSC calls. (Edit: or at least easy verbal identification).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

Because they are a useless pain in the ass.

Are you talking about trolls?

[Sandibar]

I too would find it baffling if commercial traffic would filter out class B signals on lanes or open sea - why would they?

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Just realize that this thread was started by someone who has a "Class A Receiver".

I enjoyed that too

[Littlechay]

Turning of the clutter on the RADAR screen sounds reasonable in certain situations, but you probably don't need a greasemonkey to do it.

The AIS targets will still be plotted elsewhere and still generate alarms.

What a fun thread

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Exile

Agreed, but curious why it might be desirable to keep AIS on while in a slip? Maybe if at an exposed T-head?

Some folks use AIS to let friends track their location or even as a security feature to make sure their own boat is where it's supposed to be when they are not on it. And track it if it's gone missing.

I don't believe that's against the law.

[shawndear]

Originally Posted by sck5

Shawndear above wrote one of the silliest posts I have read in a long time. He actually wants large merchant vessels to get out of his way! Hahahahahahahahhahahahhaahhaha. Good luck with that my friend! I have a much stronger sense of self preservation than that. I am small. They are large (and cant turn or stop very quickly either). Apart from that, they are doing a job and making a living. I am putzing around on my sailboat not in a hurry to get much of anywhere. I would be a fool (not to mention a few less polite things) not to get out of their way.

Sck5 you can do what you like. If you are driving and the speed limit is 60mph and you do 50mph because you can’t read or haven’t learnt the signs and think that that’s the best speed, don’t criticise those who know the rules. Sometimes those that know its 60mph will also do 50mph but that does make it law.
Due to your statement you obviously have had no formal training or are so arrogant that you think you can make up your own rules and then bully people and sound so confident that you know what you are talking about when in reality you know nothing about it. This is wrong as you are perpetuating ignorance among newbees and also failing to know the basic rules of the seas.
So for your tuition today I highly recommend that you have a look at the IMO’s (international Maritime Organisation) on Col Reg – (collision regulation). You obviously have no idea what these are, probably never heard of them; but they tell all sea going boats/ships of all sorts what boats/ships they have to give way to and under what conditions. To simplify, there is no rule about size. A ship is/is not restricted in its ability to manoeuvre; in open sea few ships are, irrelevant of size. They all have man on watch and can EASILY change their bearing by 5 degs when they spot a yacht on radar (which they all legally have to have) 15 miles away. They have to give way to the sailing yacht.
To think size or your activity (unless fishing or towing) is something to take into consideration is beyond belief. Imagine the arguments or lies on the radio between two ships that argue who has to give way because they are 1 foot bigger than the other or my job is more important than your job. Or the argument between Club Med (sailing cruise ship) and a similar sized cargo ship. Sail yachts have higher priority over ordinary unimpeded motor boats – learn it. A large cargo ship in open water is not restricted in its ability to manoeuvre. If it were it would have to display the correct day time signals - and they don't. Obviously, ex-cargo ship captains etc would love to perpetuate the misconception that sail yachts are the vermin of the sea, but we are at least the vermin with right of way over them in anything other than a restricted channel.
And remember, you may be sailing around doing nothing but others like myself do it for a living. So under your ridiculous rules I would have right of way over another sailing yacht purely because I'm working. How is that captain meant to know that.
Thankfully, the IMO had a long time to think about the rules and came up with a very good fair set of rules that are simple (for most) to understand and abide by (not related to size or importance of job). Please read these rules and correct your knowledge and stop perpetuating ignorance.