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Old 05-01-2014, 20:22   #1
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Choice of electronic equipment

I have to modernize completely the electronics of my boat (Super van Craft 60ft, built 1973). Being not a specialist in the field I want no mix of suppliers. At the time being, I am inclined to choose SIMRAD but wish to learn from experienced colleagues. Boat is in the south of Netherlands (river Maas).
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Old 05-01-2014, 20:53   #2
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

Most of the common manufacturers gear is of acceptable quality.
It's not about what I or others think.
It's about what works for you!!!!!!!!!
I suggest you visit a boat show or 2
Try out the displays & see what

YOU find the easiest to use
Plus you can get boat show discounts
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Old 05-01-2014, 21:16   #3
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

This is an interesting Delima. I have often thought about what I will do if and when I need to replace an entire suite of electronics. Part of me loves that Mulligan has just about every electronic gadget I ever wanted, that said I seriously doubt I would replace it all if say a lightning strike took it all out. We do sail at night so a radar would be high on my priority list probably coupled to a nice mid range and compatible chart plotter a depth sounder, a VHF, SSB and epirb. But given the fact we really want to expand our horizons and given the fact that theft is part of life everywhere, I think I would also seriously consider some portable wizardry as well. IPAD or Galaxy Tab with gps puck backup and a handheld vhf as well.
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Old 05-01-2014, 21:25   #4
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

I'll be replacing all of my electronics hopefully this Spring. Compatibility is a concern of mine, so I'd like to go with all one brand if possible. I'm not looking to spend TOO much, so I'm leaning towards Raymarine...but not locked into it. I guess I'll have to take a trip to the boatshow to get a better hands-on look.
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Old 05-01-2014, 21:25   #5
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While fully integrated systems are something many of us crave they do erode our situational awareness. Lots of marine and aviation research confirms this.

I love technology for planning but I prefer very basic and low tech systems while sailing. I'm always interested in hearing from others about their experience with integrated systems.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:42   #6
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

I'm more familiar with RM. But if it were me, I'd go for Nmea 2000 compliant, as then I know I'm future proofing and the system can grow, and I'm not locked in to one provider. Not across all issues as for example OCPN doesn't talk nmea 2000. Still its reasonable I think in the transition to have dual systems. I'm also a little concerned about wind instruments getting busted by lightening strike, as it may take out all instruments on that network.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:10   #7
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanride007 View Post
I'm more familiar with RM. But if it were me, I'd go for Nmea 2000 compliant, as then I know I'm future proofing and the system can grow, and I'm not locked in to one provider. Not across all issues as for example OCPN doesn't talk nmea 2000. Still its reasonable I think in the transition to have dual systems. I'm also a little concerned about wind instruments getting busted by lightening strike, as it may take out all instruments on that network.
The fact that instruments are networked does not make their susceptibility to damage in a lightening strike. Standalone instruments are in effect connected together via their power lines so are equally susceptible from lightening

Dave
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:13   #8
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

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Originally Posted by DPW View Post
I have to modernize completely the electronics of my boat (Super van Craft 60ft, built 1973). Being not a specialist in the field I want no mix of suppliers. At the time being, I am inclined to choose SIMRAD but wish to learn from experienced colleagues. Boat is in the south of Netherlands (river Maas).
You will not go wrong buying equipment from any of the big four ( Garmin, Raymarine, Navico , furuno ) the rest is personal preference.

Dave
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:19   #9
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
While fully integrated systems are something many of us crave they do erode our situational awareness. Lots of marine and aviation research confirms this.

I love technology for planning but I prefer very basic and low tech systems while sailing. I'm always interested in hearing from others about their experience with integrated systems.
I personally have few concerns about the impact on modern boat instruments on situations awareness. My experience is that modern networked Instruments provide some advantages over standalone solutions , but our systems are not integrated into running the boat , say like modern aircraft systems are or even modern ship systems.

I think people that fall into the " stare at the screen" issues will always have situational issues with or without integrated systems.

The current level of integration anyway is really quite minor. Simply having a standalone chart plotter and radar or integrating them into one unit , does not really change things. Most networks in boats are in reality exchanging very little data and are more about simplifying cabling , then anything else

Dave
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:21   #10
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

A couple of high end IPads with built in GPS is what we use 95% of the time along with the INavx app. The only other electronics needed are the depth sounder, radar and vhf.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:44   #11
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Choice of electronic equipment

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A couple of high end IPads with built in GPS is what we use 95% of the time along with the INavx app. The only other electronics needed are the depth sounder, radar and vhf.
With the greatest respect , I would definitely not trust the navigation of a boat to a " consumer " piece of gear. Secondary displays of course, they are great for that . Anyway you can get a reasonable chart plotter with sunlight readable screen and ip67 water tightness for the price of a high end ipad

Furthermore until it arrives , integrating radar into an ipad hasn't been done to my knowledge , whereas radar overlays on chart plotters are a great help to situational awareness as they are useful in determining radar picture recognition and also verification of chart accuracy

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Old 06-01-2014, 07:08   #12
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

Dave,

Have you ever tried using an IPad for navigation? I thought the same as you until I first tried one 4 years ago. Awesome and convenient, take it anywhere in the boat... no more sitting behind the helm with a permanently mounted chartplotter. Try it... you'll like it. Our 10 year old Furuno chartplotter (very expensive at the time) is now obsolite except for it's use as a radar monitor.

Plus the IPad has many more functions than just a dedicated chartplotter. We also have a small Garmin chartplotter dedicated for AIS monitoring, but even at only 6 months old, the Garmin is so primitive compared to the charts available on the Ipad. The little Garmin would cost over 400 euros to load it up with just one or two chips... the Ipad only cost $80 USD to load all the European and Med charts.

Both delivery crews we hired two years ago used IPads and small computers for navigation. Nearly every full-time cruiser we meet is now using an IPad almost exclusively. Try one.
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:21   #13
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Choice of electronic equipment

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Dave,

Have you ever tried using an IPad for navigation? I thought the same as you until I first tried one 4 years ago. Awesome and convenient, take it anywhere in the boat... no more sitting behind the helm with a permanently mounted chartplotter. Try it... you'll like it. Our 10 year old Furuno chartplotter (very expensive at the time) is now obsolite except for it's use as a radar monitor.

Plus the IPad has many more functions than just a dedicated chartplotter. We also have a small Garmin chartplotter dedicated for AIS monitoring, but even at only 6 months old, the Garmin is so primitive compared to the charts available on the Ipad. The little Garmin would cost over 400 euros to load it up with just one or two chips... the Ipad only cost $80 USD to load all the European and Med charts.

Both delivery crews we used two years ago used IPads and small computers for navigation. Nearly every full-time cruiser we meet is now using an IPad almost exclusively. Try one.
Actually I'm a apple developer and all things apple fanboy. My current stash includes ipad2,ipad 4, ipad mini retina , MacBook Air, 2ximac27, 2 aTVs , 2 airport express ,etc etc

And I have tried virtually every ipad and iPhone Nav/chart app. I write some chart stuff for " shush , can't say " .....

When I can integrate AIS, charts and radar , I will see it as a useful replacement and I would have o carry a least one if not two backups.

And I still can't see anything on the screen outside in sunlight ( or even cloudy days )

As for deliveries , I use a trusty Garmin 276C , the best plotter they ever made IMHO , it's fallen overboard , got drenched , just keeps going . If it dies , ill have to hold a wake , with much drink involved !!

Funnily I never unless forced install much gear at the helm, I spend little time there on passages.

I agree it will get better , but not until we get good black box radar integration

I've use both Simrad and Rays ipad apps , and they are a good interim solution, as they show the integration. But you need the MFD present of course

Yes it's an option , not there yet as far as I'm concerned

I will always have the issues of sunlight readable , durability etc with consumer products likes phones and tablets , even if Apple products are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above everyone else's when it cones to manufacturing quality

Dave
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:51   #14
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

There is no need to refit with a single manufacturer. You won't be gaining any "interoperability" or "compatibility" if you simply choose N2K-compliant gear (which leaves out at least Raymarine's Autopilots). Our system consists of gear from many different manufacturers - each piece chosen based on our needs and preferences and not on fear it wouldn't work with other components. Even our autopilot consists of mixed manufacturers. Everything works perfectly together.

My suggestion is to shop for each part individually and make your decision on what features, cost, size, performance etc you like. Make sure they are all fully N2K compatible (I think a few pieces of Raymarine gear is the only hold out on this), and hook them together. Your radar and chart plotter will most likely be the same manufacturer because they will use the same display. Radar is the only thing that is not mix and match.

We were struck by lightning with our old NMEA0183 instruments (including wind), and it took out everything. I don't see why N2K would be considered more vulnerable.

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Old 06-01-2014, 14:22   #15
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Re: Choice of electronic equipment

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Actually I'm a apple developer and all things apple fanboy. My current stash includes ipad2,ipad 4, ipad mini retina , MacBook Air, 2ximac27, 2 aTVs , 2 airport express ,etc etc

And I have tried virtually every ipad and iPhone Nav/chart app. I write some chart stuff for " shush , can't say " .....

When I can integrate AIS, charts and radar , I will see it as a useful replacement and I would have o carry a least one if not two backups.

And I still can't see anything on the screen outside in sunlight ( or even cloudy days )

As for deliveries , I use a trusty Garmin 276C , the best plotter they ever made IMHO , it's fallen overboard , got drenched , just keeps going . If it dies , ill have to hold a wake , with much drink involved !!

Funnily I never unless forced install much gear at the helm, I spend little time there on passages.

I agree it will get better , but not until we get good black box radar integration

I've use both Simrad and Rays ipad apps , and they are a good interim solution, as they show the integration. But you need the MFD present of course

Yes it's an option , not there yet as far as I'm concerned

I will always have the issues of sunlight readable , durability etc with consumer products likes phones and tablets , even if Apple products are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above everyone else's when it cones to manufacturing quality

Dave
That about sums it up. Great for back up, great if you are a casual boater, but for integrated chart, AIS, and radar, it close but no cigar.
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