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Old 15-05-2014, 14:44   #16
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

The reason they do this is to prevent "MMSI Spoofing" where you would (for example) put in a known MMSI so as to send out false distress signals, or intercept DSC calls to that station.

Say for example, a Sport fishermen fare using DSC in tournaments and you wanted to get in on the conversation, you could just reprogram your radio with their MMSI and listen in....

You can still do this of course, but you would need a separate radio for any stationou wanted to "spoof".
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Old 15-05-2014, 15:09   #17
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
User MMSI reprogramming is not supported though the ITU allows I think 2 or 3 attempts. In the US the FCC was stricter only allowing one.
I believe this to be incorrect. For VHF radios the FCC appears to be following the ITU rules.

Section 12.4 of these ITU rules say: "Once stored, it should not be possible for the user to change the MMSI without advice from the manufacturer."

The FCC IS stricter regarding AIS programming.
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Old 15-05-2014, 15:15   #18
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

Apparently, Norway is ahead of the curve on this issue: New MMSI numbering scheme for handheld VHF with DSC and GPS - Panbo Forum
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Old 15-05-2014, 15:59   #19
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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Originally Posted by ice View Post
I believe this to be incorrect. For VHF radios the FCC appears to be following the ITU rules.



Section 12.4 of these ITU rules say: "Once stored, it should not be possible for the user to change the MMSI without advice from the manufacturer."



The FCC IS stricter regarding AIS programming.

Interesting , because both my fixed vhfs allow 2 goes !

Further I notice " advice from the manufacturer " which suggests all it should be is a ' secret button press combination"

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Old 15-05-2014, 17:20   #20
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Further I notice " advice from the manufacturer " which suggests all it should be is a ' secret button press combination"
That's what I was hoping for. Unfortunately, Uniden's response was that I need to send my radio to them & wait 3-4 weeks to get it back. Perhaps other manufacturers may have a different policy/method for dealing with this? If so, I would very much like to hear about other options. I would be willing to purchase another radio if I could find one that allowed me to change numbers frequently.
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Old 15-05-2014, 17:59   #21
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

Of course if they gave you the button press sequence it wouldn't be secret anymore.
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Old 15-05-2014, 18:09   #22
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

I think that I have this figured out (sort of).

I keep getting told that the number is registered to the boat, not the radio, but that is not necessarily true, if you use a Boat US assigned number.

If you get a number from the FCC, then it goes to the one boat & that's the end of it. Boat US lets you edit the information associated with their ID numbers.

It appears that if I want to take my handheld on a delivery, I can just go into the comments section of my Boat US MMSI account & tell them that I am going to be on SV/xxx for the next week or so. This appears to fly in the face of how the system was intended to function, but it seems a workable solution for my present needs.

It would still be more convenient for me if I could change the number in the handheld at will, rather than edit a profile on line, because I sometimes end up crewing for someone at a moment's notice. It would be fairly easy for me to punch a few MMSI numbers into a radio as I take a dingy ride out to the main boat, but I might not have an internet connection & a laptop with me in that situation.

I see a lot of things that say you only need one MMSI number for a particular boat & that all the radios on board should have the same MMSI, but I haven't seen anything yet that says you are actually legally forbidden to have more than one MMSI on board a single boat. If I missed that somewhere, please bring it to my attention.

I'm not entirely happy with this "solution" that I have come up with, but it looks to be the best option that I have found so far.

I'm still all ears if someone has a way for me to change that frustrating number on a regular basis. I would much rather comply with the standard of having all matching MMSI numbers on board a particular boat, if I had the ability to do so.

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 15-05-2014, 19:08   #23
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

For Furuno gear, the "secret" number sequence to get into service mode is actually part of Furuno's head office in Tokyo phone number.
For some of the their latest fixed VHF's, it involves using this number, plus linking two pins on the data port on the back of the set.
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Old 15-05-2014, 20:14   #24
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
For Furuno gear, the "secret" number sequence to get into service mode is actually part of Furuno's head office in Tokyo phone number.
I suspect Nigel is bound to keep the secret because of where he works but I got it without strings attached so here it goes. 652111 usually does the "secret dealer password" job in Furuno equipment (not just VHF radios, also AIS units).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
For some of the their latest fixed VHF's, it involves using this number, plus linking two pins on the data port on the back of the set.
Then you are left with the problem of getting the system to the point where it asks for the password. This depends on the type of equipment but you can usually get some help by asking Google to look for "MMSI", "652111" and the model number of your radio/AIS.

Now can someone please give me the recipe for my Icom VHF radio because I will change reg country, hence MMSI

Cheers

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Old 16-05-2014, 02:56   #25
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

It should be pointed out that Boat/Us MMSI no have no validity outside the US as they are not registered in the ITU database. However they don't clash with any other numbers out there.

Why the us could just issue proper MMSIs from the start was always perplexing , but then they never took DSC seriously till recently.

Ultimately the ITU ruling will allow handhelds to be registered separately in their own right. Still won't allow MMSI switching though

Dave

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Old 16-05-2014, 05:33   #26
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

The only MMSI assigned to the vessel is fixed installations (AIS, fixed VHF)
Other MMSI's are assigned to handheld VHF's that have no relationship to the other MMSI. There is no need to have a new MMSI for your handheld and you cannot use the vessels fixed MMSI in it anyway.
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Old 16-05-2014, 13:26   #27
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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The only MMSI assigned to the vessel is fixed installations (AIS, fixed VHF)
Other MMSI's are assigned to handheld VHF's that have no relationship to the other MMSI. There is no need to have a new MMSI for your handheld and you cannot use the vessels fixed MMSI in it anyway.

Absolutely wrong my friend and contrary to ITU and FCC rules

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Old 16-05-2014, 14:18   #28
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Absolutely wrong my friend and contrary to ITU and FCC rules

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Interesting, I do like to be wrong because it means I'm about to learn something new! However from the AMSA website it would appear I haven't learnt anything yet.
Some snippets:

An MMSI is a unique nine-digit code set into your DSC-capable radio transceiver and/or AIS transceiver to identify your vessel or coast station. You need only one of these if you have multiple fixed DSC radios and/or AIS transceivers. You use the same MMSI for all DSC and AIS transceivers onboard the one vessel as it is a ship's identity.

and

From January 2012, Australian handheld VHF transceivers with DSC now use the maritime identity format 8503xxxxx, where x is any figure from 0 to 9, in accordance with Recommendation ITU-R M.585-6, Annex II, Section I.

When a handheld VHF transceiver with DSC changes ownership, AMSA is to be advised of the new owner's details.

Please note that handheld VHF transceivers with DSC are issued to persons, rather than vessels, in recognition that these transceivers can move between vessels.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/search-and-r...ty-comms/mmsi/

looking forward to hearing how I (and AMSA it appears) got it wrong?
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Old 16-05-2014, 16:05   #29
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Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

There are in effect several regulations involving the use of mmsi, there are also recommendations as well which are non binding

In most countries , like the USA and many others annex I of that recommendation is not implemented. As I understand it the ITU has not yet made it a " regulation "

At present , you apply for a ships radio station license. That is assigned to the ship , an alpha numeric call sign s also provided as is an mmsi number. All radios on the ship , including handhelds VHF , MF, HF are all programmed with the same mmsi.

That mmsi number is then along with the ships details and call sign entered into the global ITU database.

Annex I allows countries to implement a local scheme to issue MMSIs to handhelds ( and other devices ) not specifically associated with a ships license.

The numbering scheme has no standard administrative approach, an implementation is at the behest of the national organisation, to my understanding such MMSIs using 8 or 9 'as the identifier are not entered into the ITU database as a matter of course. The ITU " reccomends" that a national database is maintained

It is expected that in due course this will become a regulation, which would force all subscribing bodies to issue such MMSIs. This would be a good thing

Hence at present for the vast majority the regulations as they stand applied , MMSIs are issued to ships radio stations not individual radios. ( I'm looking at mine right now )


The purpose of annex I was not to facilitate handhelds moving between ships. But to facilitate handhelds being used in situation where there are no ships, like dinghys , small boats , etc etc.
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Old 16-05-2014, 16:31   #30
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Re: Can't change MMSI # in handheld with DSC????

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Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
I suspect Nigel is bound to keep the secret because of where he works but I got it without strings attached so here it goes. 652111 usually does the "secret dealer password" job in Furuno equipment (not just VHF radios, also AIS units).

Not that secretive.

For the 150 model AIS password is a little different as no numerical keypad.
At password prompt, hit the following keys in sequence
MENU
ENTER
DISP
DIM
NAV STATUS
MENU

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