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Old 14-05-2010, 07:52   #16
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Mcmaster- carr has a good selection of hyd seals You can check it out on line
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:00   #17
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
agh yes B&G, vastly overpriced for what you get these days. Junk it and start again
Yes, B&G top of the line stuff is over engineered and expensive. On the other hand they are well built and my 30 year old B&G Hercules 390 system is still 100% working, in daily use, and has features and flexibility which are hard to get on other brands even now. To replace it with any other system, with same features, would also cost quite a bit, and would they last?
Yes, keeping it all running has been a challenge since the model I have was discontinued 25 years ago, but it is possible, and with used parts, and not too expensive.
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Old 11-07-2012, 14:42   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail

Yes, B&G top of the line stuff is over engineered and expensive. On the other hand they are well built and my 30 year old B&G Hercules 390 system is still 100% working, in daily use, and has features and flexibility which are hard to get on other brands even now. To replace it with any other system, with same features, would also cost quite a bit, and would they last?
Yes, keeping it all running has been a challenge since the model I have was discontinued 25 years ago, but it is possible, and with used parts, and not too expensive.
I have some 28 year old Cetrek gear too, still running. I have also some 15 year old auto helm stuff. And this proves what...

Are you seriously suggesting that 30 year Old electronics is more flexible......???

Any way B&G is just a division of Navico, so it's all the same stuff internally now.

Dave
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:23   #19
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Any way B&G is just a division of Navico, so it's all the same stuff internally now.

Dave
Kind of, but not quite. They (Simrad, Lowrance, B&G) are gathering around some common stuff, like their recreational autopilot computers, but they are careful to differentiate in R&D. For example, compare the B&G Zeus MFD to the Lowrance and Simrad ones. Lots of room between them. And although they may share some physical components like screens and buttons, they differ greatly in functionality and quality. I suspect they will also change in a hand-me-down way over time. We have both the Simrad AP with the Simrad MFD control head and the new B&G Triton T41 MFD and AP control, which is configurable as an AP control head for the Simrad AP. The Simrad gear is current and was bought only 3 months before the B&G. The Simrad control head looks and feels like 19th century technology next to the new B&G stuff. I suspect the Simrad control MFD will eventually migrate toward that like the B&G.

BTW, anyone looking at small MFD's like the Raymarine i70 or Garmin GMI10 should look at the B&G Triton T41 - it is an amazing piece of gear.

Mark
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Old 11-07-2012, 17:26   #20
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
And this proves what...[and]

Are you seriously suggesting that 30 year Old electronics is more flexible......???

Any way B&G is just a division of Navico, so it's all the same stuff internally now.

Dave
A) It proves that it is well built and durable (OK, over engineered).
B) Yes, I am seriously suggesting that my old system is more flexible than a lot of the new stuff. When I drop into the marine electronics store and try to duplicate functionality and flexibility which my existing gear has, I find that it either can't be done or it is very expensive, the standard instrumentation packages can't touch the flexibility of my system. It makes what those B & G guys accomplished in the early 80's very remarkable. When I set up a B&G 2000 system a few years back for a friend with a new race boat, I found that B&G had advanced quite a lot during the interval, and that makes them even further ahead of the rest of the pack.
C) I think the last commentor did a good job addressing your thought about all the gear being the same internally.
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:24   #21
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

This is a very old thread, but the discussion is still relavant.
Compare B&G H3000 ( or the NKE stuff) with the Raymarine equivalent and there is absolutely no comparison. Metal and glass with sealed screen verses plastic and holes to let condensation out. Compare the accuracy, adjustability and stability of the display.
Then compare the price. Lots more dollars for much better stuff.
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:31   #22
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

0.46 of a boat buck in the big picture really isn't too bad.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:28   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj

Kind of, but not quite. They (Simrad, Lowrance, B&G) are gathering around some common stuff, like their recreational autopilot computers, but they are careful to differentiate in R&D. For example, compare the B&G Zeus MFD to the Lowrance and Simrad ones. Lots of room between them. And although they may share some physical components like screens and buttons, they differ greatly in functionality and quality. I suspect they will also change in a hand-me-down way over time. We have both the Simrad AP with the Simrad MFD control head and the new B&G Triton T41 MFD and AP control, which is configurable as an AP control head for the Simrad AP. The Simrad gear is current and was bought only 3 months before the B&G. The Simrad control head looks and feels like 19th century technology next to the new B&G stuff. I suspect the Simrad control MFD will eventually migrate toward that like the B&G.

BTW, anyone looking at small MFD's like the Raymarine i70 or Garmin GMI10 should look at the B&G Triton T41 - it is an amazing piece of gear.

Mark
The B&G Zeus is the same hardware platform and standard of construction as the Simrad NSE , the software is different aimed at sailing/club racing etc.

B&G trition display will also be available as a Sinrad product, again with a slightly different software feature set.

Navico are using the " premium" B&G name to launch more upmarket products first. Also the line is being reengineed to use a common hardware base. In time B&G will just be software features.

Dave
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Old 12-07-2012, 18:07   #24
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

We had a boatfull of B & G. Note the operative word: HAD. Parts are just absurd, so we replaced them. All.
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Old 12-07-2012, 18:32   #25
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

I've had great service life from my B&G Hornet with a bunch of cockpit displays... working for 27 years now and even the AWI is been outside continuously... What works flawlessly for 27 years these days with no maintenance at all?

The new instrumentation N2K and all can do all sorts of tricks and it will cost several boat units when the old B&G finally gives up the ghost... they are not supported any longer and so it's into the 21st century we sail.... but when?
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Old 12-07-2012, 18:56   #26
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

FWIW, I've had good luck working with Myles Electronics in Deland, FL for parts, spares & advice for my B&G Hydra system with a T2 ram AP. Especially now that B&G has been bought by Navico and many of its systems (incl. mine) discontinued, Myles is always refurbishing old parts he buys off eBay, etc. and reselling them at reasonable prices (relatively speaking) backed up with a warranty. He's a B&G dealer, and his website lists new & used parts he has in stock. I was contemplating purchase of the same seal kit the OP bought, just to have for onboard spares. Myles talked me out of it, indicating that such catastrophic leaks as the OP described were rare, and that taking the unit apart was not well advised. He also said that the only B&G units he has seen which are beyond hope are those that have done the equivalent of multiple circumnavigations. He is a dealer for the product, of course, but he has also foregone several opportunities to sell me expensive spares -- incl. a $2K spare ram -- that he felt I didn't need.

It's possible that poor installation, corrosion, wet, or some other factor played a role in the OP's & other poster's B&G woes. I also have a friend who served as crew chief for one of the Velux5 ocean race boats. He said that almost all of those round-the-world single-handed race boats use B&G and, if set up correctly, do not suffer failures. He has also thus far talked me out of investing in any backup systems, advice which ultimately I probably will NOT follow!

No interest or affiliation with B&G, Navico, Velux5, or Myles Electronics here folks. Just a guy who bought a 20+ year-old boat in 2007 that had 7 year-old, soon-to-be-obsolete B&G instruments & AP. Ironically, it's just about the only system on the boat that hasn't failed in whole or in part in the past 5 years, something which makes me both confident & nervous! Would love to hear other experiences with B&G, pro or con, along with ideas for backups.

Dan
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Old 12-07-2012, 19:06   #27
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

When i worked as a Transit mechanic we used to use "build your own kits" in fact we rebuilt most of the machinery which needed replacement,,save the company Mega bucks,,,,here is a supplier of what all of you need.
P.S. i never had a failure of any of my rebuilds.
DMR O-Rings Kits
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Old 13-07-2012, 08:40   #28
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

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I was contemplating purchase of the same seal kit the OP bought, just to have for onboard spares. Myles talked me out of it, indicating that such catastrophic leaks as the OP described were rare, and that taking the unit apart was not well advised.

....

Would love to hear other experiences with B&G, pro or con, along with ideas for backups.

Dan
Myles is great and very knowledgeable. Although as for rarity, he is not correct. In addition to the OP, I know of 6 other RAMs that leaked hydraulic fluid, including ours. It is not "rare", although every instance that I know of the RAM was >10yr old and had been in heavy use for many, many thousands of miles. What happens with these is that they are mounted below decks in a dirty, damp area connected directly to the quadrant. Over a long time, small amounts of salts and dirt collecting on the shaft and eventually get past the wiper washer into the seal - causing a hydraulic fluid leak. I imagine this is an issue for any brand of hydraulic RAM at some point.

He is also not correct about the difficulty of taking the unit apart to change the seals. The unit has an endcap that unscrews. Within that endcap is a rubber seal and a teflon wiper washer. Replace those, screw the endcap back on and you are good. The unit is very difficult to take apart and work on things like check valves or the seal on the motor shaft.

Other than that - Myles is the man for B&G repair and parts!

We had a 14yr old B&G Network system - including wind, quad data, gps and autopilot that worked flawlessly until a direct lightning strike took them out last year. We have replaced the autopilot with a Simrad/Raymarine/Maretron hybrid (love N2K for mix and match!) and B&G Triton T41 multifunction displays. In my opinion, these are the best small MFD's currently available - they are simply stunning and have amazing functionality. They cost similar to equivalent offerings from Raymarine (i70) and Garmin (GMI10), so the price argument is moot.

We also have the Triton autopilot keypad, which operates the Simrad AP computer. This provides a backup controller for the AP for <$240. Although it doesn't have all the bells and whistles as the Simrad controller, if one is willing to forgo functionality like steer to a depth contour and steer zigzag courses, etc, it is fully able to replace the Simrad controller and provide a much nicer display when coupled to a T41.

As for "parts", they are MFD's - I would never buy a dedicated system again. All wind, depth, speed, compass, gps, etc "parts" are isolated and independent (again, love N2K for simplicity and mixing!). If any "part" goes, I replace it with whatever I want, direct from the manufacturer, and they are almost always less expensive. For example, the Maretron ultrasonic wind instrument feeding the network wind direction, speed, temp and humidity is ~$500, which is less than the dedicated system "wands" from the usual suspects, while providing more functionality (the old B&G wand cost $1,300!).

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Old 13-07-2012, 08:52   #29
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

I sincerely regret that it is very difficult to find good working instruments.
In this respect I support wingssail when he claims the positive points of the B&G Hercules 390.

By absence of the trusted B&G I have now sought refuge to the new Garmin instruments which came recently on the market.
At least I know that Garmin in combination with the supplier, who supplies also the big yachtmarket, will give the best of service. Garmin is as double expensive as the recreational stuff but at least I am sure of a professional installation.
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Old 13-07-2012, 09:49   #30
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Re: Can We Over-Engineer this? B&G Rant !

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I sincerely regret that it is very difficult to find good working instruments.
I don't understand this point. We just replaced every single instrument on our boat and found many good working choices to choose from. B&G still make instruments. While I don't like Raymarine as a company, their i70 seems very nice and useful. Simrad makes excellent autopilots, as always - and the same with Furuno and radars. Everyone is breaking ground with larger MFD chartplotters.

And there is a lot more than just the usual suspects out there - WH, NKE, Tacktic, etc. In fact, I would venture that there is more good, functional gear out there at better prices than at any other time. The technology is finally coming down to the consumer end - individual components, bonded displays, easy networking, better waterproofing, multi-functionality, easily mixed and matched, etc.

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