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Old 02-04-2017, 14:45   #1
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Can ham and marine SSB play together?

We are planning to install a reasonably inexpensive used ham radio on our boat, and playing with it for the next year or so before sailing off.

We will possibly add a marine SSB in the future.

So, is there a ham radio/tuner/modem set up to which a marine SSB could be a simple plug and play, using the same tuner and modem? Anything we should avoid or watch out for?

On our last cruise, a few years sailing from Thailand where we bought a boat, we used an Iridium phone for weather and text/voice coms, but don't think that alone was the best set up.
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Old 02-04-2017, 15:32   #2
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

There's not really any good reason, in my opinion, to have both a ham radio and marine SSB on board. Something like an Icom M802 will do both quite well.

That's going to be somewhat more expensive than some ham radios, but still can be found used for under $1000 if you have time to look around a bit (I bought my own M802 PLUS tuner PLUS Pactor modem for less than that). Will save you ripping out and installing a different radio later, and plus you get to practice on marine SSB from the beginning.

The M802 is very easy to connect to a Pactor modem and has convenient controls for data modes.
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Old 02-04-2017, 16:24   #3
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

I am too inexperienced to answer your question. So please excuse me for saying so, but it seems to me that you are not really asking a simple question. To begin to understand the different aspects of receiving and perhaps transmitting on marine SSB bands and/or Ham HF SSB bands it seems to me that you must do more research so that you can understand what you might be able to do with the proper licenses and equipment and then decide what you want to do. Based on my limited experience (although I have a Ham general license) I can say that this it is not easy, but is interesting. Perhaps you may wish to search the web for some very old but very good documents by Gordon West about marine SSB, and perhaps you may wish to go for a general Ham license so that you can transmit on non-marine HF bands. Then you have to decide what radio and what antenna, etc.

I would say that once you learn what you can do, then and only then can you can then decide what you want to do and what you must accomplish to make it happen. That is what I am doing. I haven't found Yoda yet.
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Old 02-04-2017, 16:47   #4
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

A marine SSB can also operate on the HAM bands, however, a HAM radio may not be able to operate on the Marine SSB bands legally.
The specifications and standards and tolerances from marine SSB are much tighter than that of HAM radios.
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Old 02-04-2017, 17:25   #5
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

Thanks but that was not really my question.

I simply wanted to know if there was a ham setup into which a marine SSB could be seamlessly introduced. I don't know if we will but it would be nice to have the option.

I concede that might be a stupid question.
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Old 02-04-2017, 17:41   #6
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

The Icom tuners will work with Icom radios. The SCG 230 tuner will work with any radio.

The antenna and ground will work with any radio.

The pactor modem will have a different wire from the radio to the modem for each radio. See the Pactor Primer for more info on what radios will work (most will).
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Old 02-04-2017, 17:48   #7
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foojin View Post
Thanks but that was not really my question.

I simply wanted to know if there was a ham setup into which a marine SSB could be seamlessly introduced. I don't know if we will but it would be nice to have the option.

I concede that might be a stupid question.
It's not a stupid question, for sure, but what is "seamlessly"? Plug into the same connectors? Or just compatible with the same tuner?

I don't think it's a big deal to take out one radio and tuner, and install different ones, once you've set up the antenna and ground plane. I don't know if you can use the same tuner for both installations -- don't know what radios you have in mind. But if you go straight to M802, you will have none of these issues and you won't have to do any re-installation, sell old gear, etc. That's certainly what I would do; YMMV.
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Old 02-04-2017, 17:59   #8
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

You could buy an Icom 718 ( cheap enough to buy new ) and hook it up to an SEA 1612C tuner. SEA 1612C Product Reviews

I think the SGS-230 is very similar.

The beauty of this is that the SEA 1612C is voice rather than control cable tuned so using with two radios would be simple enough. Just needs a switch like the ones Alpha-Delta make Alpha Delta Delta Switches Delta 2 Delta 4

If you go down that route then life is simple enough.

I share a Pactor modem between a ham radio ( Icom 706Mk2G ) and a Marine HF ( Icom 710 ). That does involved unplugging from one and plugging everything back in to the other plus changing settings in the Sailmail program so not something one would do on a daily basis.

You could - if you don't mind risking a lengthy jail term plus a right royal savaging here on CF - simply get the 718 opened up for the marine bands and do it that way with only one radio. However I would never ever suggest you do such a thing. Honest.......

EDITED due to being a very slow thinker typist .....

The above is pretty seamless... Introduction of the Marine HF to the above setup would simply require the second radio, a length of co-ax, and the switch.
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Old 03-04-2017, 00:36   #9
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

El P,

Appreciate your take and the links.

Had read in other threads good things about the sgs-230 and have been trolling ebay and elsewhere for them. Will watch for the sea1612c as well.

I think I can see why someone would stick with one radio for use with the modem and mail service.

Cheers
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:21   #10
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

No probs...

Then again you probably could run 2 radios, 1 computer, 1 Pactor, and 1 tuner but it would probably end up looking a bit like this.....
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:55   #11
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

You will find ham radio a lot more useful. Half of the marine nets broadcast on ham frequencies anyway. There are a lot more hams around the world to talk to and exchange information. The benefit of having a ham radio is that is it much easier to interface to a computer, so all frequency setting, dialing, etc. can be automated. You can ran ALE which takes the pain out of figuring which band to use. In emergency you are allowed to broadcast on the marine bands as a ham. I would do ham radio+marine tuner (either SEA or SGC)+Winmor. After you have played with it for a while and if you still like it, you can splurge on a Pactor.
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:11   #12
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
No probs...

Then again you probably could run 2 radios, 1 computer, 1 Pactor, and 1 tuner but it would probably end up looking a bit like this.....
Is that the farm rig? If so, it sounds fine from over here.
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:18   #13
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

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Is that the farm rig? If so, it sounds fine from over here.
Yup, but a Pactor free zone and only 1 transceiver....

It does however involve 3 tx/rx ants.... right hand end.... 3 tuners.... 5 or 6 rx ants... and about a dozen receivers.....

You know what they say... nothing exceeds like excess...
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:20   #14
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foojin View Post
Thanks but that was not really my question.

I simply wanted to know if there was a ham setup into which a marine SSB could be seamlessly introduced. I don't know if we will but it would be nice to have the option.

I concede that might be a stupid question.
It's not a stupid question, but I am still scratching my head a bit about the order of things here.

I read this as you currently have no radio?

And you want HAM now and MIGHT want Marine HF later?

I'm a KISS kind of guy, so I would balance the complexities of multiple radios and gamble that I'll probably want both eventually, so I'd go down the path of a used M802. It meets the HAM need out of the box, it is reasonably resistant to the boat environment (I say reasonably because I saw some credible evidence that the 801 is better sealed and robust)

As Dockhead said, a used one is good value (though the price may have gone up recently with the discontinuation). By the time you buy two radios you are probably going to be up for similar dollars, particularly if you are limited to radios that will both talk to the same ATU. (Or you get one of the ATUs that are radio brand agnostic, but they are NOT cheap.)

Finally, I am not a techno-man-cave kind of guy, and I really don't like the thought of a whole lot of radio gear cluttering the boat. As it is, with the 802, I have managed to make it practically invisible, which would not be possible if I had to make and break cable connections to switch between two radios or duplicate most of the running gear.

Matt
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:23   #15
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Re: Can ham and marine SSB play together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
You could buy an Icom 718 ( cheap enough to buy new ) and hook it up to an SEA 1612C tuner. SEA 1612C Product Reviews

I think the SGS-230 is very similar.

The beauty of this is that the SEA 1612C is voice rather than control cable tuned so using with two radios would be simple enough. Just needs a switch like the ones Alpha-Delta make Alpha Delta Delta Switches Delta 2 Delta 4

If you go down that route then life is simple enough.

I share a Pactor modem between a ham radio ( Icom 706Mk2G ) and a Marine HF ( Icom 710 ). That does involved unplugging from one and plugging everything back in to the other plus changing settings in the Sailmail program so not something one would do on a daily basis.

You could - if you don't mind risking a lengthy jail term plus a right royal savaging here on CF - simply get the 718 opened up for the marine bands and do it that way with only one radio. However I would never ever suggest you do such a thing. Honest.......

EDITED due to being a very slow thinker typist .....

The above is pretty seamless... Introduction of the Marine HF to the above setup would simply require the second radio, a length of co-ax, and the switch.
So, at the risk of being a PITA, how do you think the TOTAL cost of that setup would look by the time it is ready to go? Would it be comparable with a used 802, or a different ball park?
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