Can a GPS Antennae fail?

[chuckr]

When we put on our ACR AIS it came with a gps antenna. It worked great and it feeds the AIS and the chartplotter.

Last year after we arrived it Tunisia for the winter we occasionally turn all the electronics on to make sure everything works and we could not get a signal. It had been acting up a bit and slow to pick up a signal but then it did not pick up anything. So we got a new antenna when we visited the USA last year, hooked it up and it worked immediately and great.

By the way one reason we run OpenCPN as a back up to our chartplotter.

Just a question but what back up do you run?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by chuckr

When we put on our ACR AIS it came with a gps antenna. It worked great and it feeds the AIS and the chartplotter.

Last year after we arrived it Tunisia for the winter we occasionally turn all the electronics on to make sure everything works and we could not get a signal. It had been acting up a bit and slow to pick up a signal but then it did not pick up anything. So we got a new antenna when we visited the USA last year, hooked it up and it worked immediately and great.

By the way one reason we run OpenCPN as a back up to our chartplotter.

Just a question but what back up do you run?

We have various backup position data sources. On the network, Simrad GS25 is primary. The network will fail over to the GNSS receiver built into my helm plotter. If both those were to fail, the AIS black box outputs position data over 0183 to the navigation table plotter, and I can quickly configure that to bridge this data to the N2K network.

If the GPS system goes down, two of those devices receive the Russian GLONASS system.

If something happens to the network, I have a fully autonomous plotting system in my IPad with INavX with charts.

Besides that, a couple of phones and the handheld Garmin in the grab bag will give position data.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

We have various backup position data sources. On the network, Simian GS25 is primary. The network will fail over to the GNSS receiver built into my helm plotter. If both those were to fail, the AIS black box outputs position data over 0183 to the navigation table plotter, and I can quickly configure that to bridge this data to the N2K network.

If the GPS system goes down, two of those devices receive the Russian GLONASS system.

If something happens to the network, I have a fully autonomous plotting system in my IPad with INavX with charts.

Besides that, a couple of phones and the handheld Garmin in the grab bag will give position data.

Luddite.

Mark

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

Luddite.

Mark

I also have paper and still know how to do a three point fix

But that's a different conversation. . .

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by colemj

Luddite.

Mark

Mark,
I know you have referenced the historical term "Luddite" in many previous posts. However, the myth of the term is that the Luddites were anti-technology. The historical reality is that the Luddites were not anti-technology but rather were opposed to technology in the way it shapes our lives. An excellent article appears in the Smithsonian Magazine and is an interesting read. Good luck, good sailing . . . Rognvald Luddite, esq;
History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonianluddites-really-fough...

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[colemj]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Mark,
I know you have referenced the historical term "Luddite" in many previous posts. However, the myth of the term is that the Luddites were anti-technology. The historical reality is that the Luddites were not anti-technology but rather were opposed to technology in the way it shapes our lives. An excellent article appears in the Smithsonian Magazine and is an interesting read. Good luck, good sailing . . . Rognvald Luddite, esq;
History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonianluddites-really-fough...

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But the way I used the term "Luddite" is highly recognizable in the context, form and theater in which I used it.

Sometimes precision beats accuracy.

Now band with me and try to get people to stop using the term "data" in the singular…

Mark

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Update:

I armed myself with the Garmin firmware update on an SD card and headed for the boat. It's the same one I applied several months ago, nothing has changed.

I stepped onto the boat, hit the button on the MFD and it came up with the antenna working fine, no question mark on the boat icon and GPS coordinates displayed as expected.

So, either it had lost the information from disuse and regained it last week while I had it on or there's an intermittent problem somewhere. Now I'll have to test it every time I do to the boat.

Those intermittent ones are the worst kind, all you can do is check all the connections, etc.
It might have been some off the wall RF interference (on the GPS freq) at the time too, there's a lot more RF floating around now.
Wasn't sure if you were using a same brand/compatible chartplotter to the GPS17, sounds like you are, so look into using the MFD to access the GPS status data and see if a particular failure has been marked (or the RS232/PC with the Garmin interface app).
Sometimes that kind of data gets reset on a power cycle, so if it (loss of GPS) happens again, have a look at that info before powering it off.
The GPS17 manual indicated that it flagged several types of internal failure which might be useful to know. Of course if any fail status bits are marked and reoccur, it probably means the unit is gone; it's not likely possible to repair that kind of trouble (although the old Mark I eyeball on the PCB circuitry inside sometimes finds something easy)...
In any case have a backup, 'cause you won't ever quite trust it again 100%.

[motion30]

The raymarine antenna are far from cheap$300+ on a good day. Mine failed. New one fixed it

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Tx J

Those intermittent ones are the worst kind, all you can do is check all the connections, etc.
It might have been some off the wall RF interference (on the GPS freq) at the time too, there's a lot more RF floating around now.
Wasn't sure if you were using a same brand/compatible chartplotter to the GPS17, sounds like you are, so look into using the MFD to access the GPS status data and see if a particular failure has been marked (or the RS232/PC with the Garmin interface app).
Sometimes that kind of data gets reset on a power cycle, so if it (loss of GPS) happens again, have a look at that info before powering it off.
The GPS17 manual indicated that it flagged several types of internal failure which might be useful to know. Of course if any fail status bits are marked and reoccur, it probably means the unit is gone; it's not likely possible to repair that kind of trouble (although the old Mark I eyeball on the PCB circuitry inside sometimes finds something easy)...
In any case have a backup, 'cause you won't ever quite trust it again 100%.

Thanks. I do have a backup, it's just that it would be a PITA to pull the cable. I suppose I could use the old cable and splice it. Or run it out the window and up to the flybridge until I got to port.

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Thanks. I do have a backup, it's just that it would be a PITA to pull the cable. I suppose I could use the old cable and splice it. Or run it out the window and up to the flybridge until I got to port.

I meant a completely different, separate type of 'backup' system, like another chartplotter or PC/tablet/GPS/OpenCPN or whatever; instant on. Your second GPS17 is just a spare part.
Of which I carry around far too many too, the theory being: if you have a spare, it won't fail; of course that which you don't have, will.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Mark,
I know you have referenced the historical term "Luddite" in many previous posts. However, the myth of the term is that the Luddites were anti-technology. The historical reality is that the Luddites were not anti-technology but rather were opposed to technology in the way it shapes our lives. An excellent article appears in the Smithsonian Magazine and is an interesting read. Good luck, good sailing . . . Rognvald Luddite, esq;
History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonianluddites-really-fough...

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Once more, we are sorely missing the sarcasm smiley.

Mark was joking.

[txh2oskier]

How about pulling the new receiver wire with the old one? Any recommendation on how to tie the two together? I have to go through a pretty small hole drilled in the stainless steel arch.

Thanks.
Brian

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by txh2oskier

How about pulling the new receiver wire with the old one? Any recommendation on how to tie the two together? I have to go through a pretty small hole drilled in the stainless steel arch.

Thanks.
Brian

I my case I would have to cut the wire near the antenna to use it as a pull wire. Of course I could do that and I might as well do that it the antenna is truly "dead".

There are many ways to tie the two together and the goal is to avoid making a "lump" that will hang up on something. One way is to strip back the outer insulation on both wires for an inch or two, then twist the wires from both cables together individually and dress them away from the direction you will be pulling. Cut them short enough that they won't lie over the outer insulation. Cover everything with electrical tape, again going away from the direction you are pulling. Except for the tape, the whole bundle shouldn't be any bigger than the original cable.

Lubricate the tape (wire pulling lubricant is best but saliva works) and gently pull it through. It's best to have someone at the origin to help feed the cable to you but if you don't pull a bit, then go back to the other end and make sure it's feeding smoothly and is not hung up on something.

BTW: Wires or cables should never pass through a hole drilled in metal without some sort of protective grommet on the metal. With the demise of Radio Shack, your closest home center or hardware store is your best bet.

[Kerry1]

Originally Posted by txh2oskier

How about pulling the new receiver wire with the old one? Any recommendation on how to tie the two together? I have to go through a pretty small hole drilled in the stainless steel arch.

Thanks.
Brian

As an apprentice electrician I was taught this method (see illustration), to attach draw wires. I have seen first hand how this has gone horribly wrong after a lot of effort to get to that point only to have the joint fail at a tight spot. If you lose that draw wire you can put yourself to a lot of trouble to rectify it. If done correctly the conductors will break before the joint lets go. It is good to have someone feed as well as some one pulling, and the guy or gal who made the joint does the pulling! As an added caution, do not pull fast even if moving freely as any friction points will burn off insulation really quick- slow and steady as she goes. Hope this isn't hijacking the post.